* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:04] ALRIGHT, [CLOSED MEETING] CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER. ROLL CALL. ROLL CALL PLEASE. MAYOR PARTON. VICE MAYOR GORE. COUNCILLOR JOYNER. HERE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS. HERE. COUNCILOR DENTON. HERE. COUNCILLOR PE. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY. HERE WE HAVE A QUO. WE HAVE, WE GOT TO READ THE CERTIFICATION. HONOR CLERK, THE CLERK. DO WE, WE HAVE TO HAVE A MOTION TO GO INTO CLOSE. NO. YES. IS THERE A MOTION I MOVE. I SAY, IS THERE A MOTION TO COME TO CLOSE? I MOVE. WE GO CLOSE SESSION. YOU HAVE TO READ THE MOTION PURSUANT TO VIRGINIA CODE SECTION 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1 A I TO DISCUSS AND CONSIDER PERSONNEL MATTERS, INCLUDING BOARD AND COMMISSION APPOINTMENTS. HOPEWELL REDEVELOPMENT, HOUSING AUTHORITY, BOARD OF ZONING, APPEALS, ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, AUTHORITY, PLANNING COMMISSION, HEALTHY FAMILIES, DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES, DISTRICT 19, RECREATION AND PARKS KEEP HOPEWELL BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY POLICY AND MANAGEMENT TEAM, HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMITTEE, ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD, THE ASSIGNMENT AND PERFORMANCE OF SPECIFIC APPOINTEES AND EMPLOYEES OF CITY COUNCIL, CITY ATTORNEY, APPLICANTS, AND VIRGINIA CODE TWO POINT SECTION 2.2 DASH 3 7 1 1. A 30. DISCUSSION OF THE AWARD OF PUBLIC CONTRACT INVOLVING EXPENDITURE OF PUBLIC FUNDS, INCLUDING INTERVIEWS OF BIDDERS OR OFFERS AND DISCUSSION OF THE TERMS OR SCOPE OF SUCH CONTRACT WHERE DISCUSSION IN AN OPEN SESSION WOULD ADVERSELY AFFECT THE BARGAINING POSITION OR NEGOTIATING STRATEGY OF THE PUBLIC BODY. AND TO THE EXTENT SUCH DISCUSSION WILL BE AIDED, THEREBY PROCUREMENT OF REAL ESTATE AND HOPE WELL, SO MOVE INSTEAD OF SECOND. A SECOND. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. I HEAR A SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON. YES. VICE MAYOR GORE. COUNCILOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILOR PELO. YES. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILOR JOYNER. YES. MOTION PASSES. SIX TO ZERO. I [RECONVENE OPEN MEETING] HAVE, UH, MOTION TO COME OUT OF CLOSED MEETING. SO MOVED. SECOND MOTION'S BEEN MADE BY COUNCILOR DENTON AND SECONDED BY COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION SEEING NO LIGHTS? ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS. MAYOR, PARTNER? YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILOR ELLO. YES. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILOR JOYNER? YES. MOTION PASSES. SIX TO ONE. OKAY. I'M SORRY. SIX TO ZERO. OKAY. UH, CERTIFICATION PLEASE. CERTIFICATION PURSUANT TO VIRGINIA CODE SECTION 2.2 DASH THREE SEVEN 2D. WE'RE ONLY PUBLIC BUSINESS MATTERS. ONE. LAWFULLY EXEMPTED FROM OPEN MEETING REQUIREMENTS AND TWO IDENTIFIED IN ENCLO MEETING. MOTION DISCUSSED. ENCLOSED MEETING MAYOR PARTON. YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON. YES. COUNCILLOR PAOLO? YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY. YES. COUNCILOR JOINER? YES. MOTION PASSES. SIX TO ZERO. OKAY. UH, DO I HAVE A MOTION TO APPOINT, UH, SHANTE WHEELER TO THE SOCIAL SERVICES ADVISORY BOARD? VIOLET TAYLOR TO THE HOPPO PRINCE GEORGE HEALTHY FAMILIES ADVISORY BOARD CHRIS LOFSTROM TO KEEP POPPO BEAUTIFUL. JENNIFER LOWRY TO KEEP POPPO BEAUTIFUL. AND ZANNA RICHARDSON TO THE RECREATION COMMISSION. SO SECOND. ALRIGHT. MOTION'S BEEN MADE BY COUNCILOR JOINER AND SECONDED BY VICE MAYOR GORE. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION SEEING NO LIGHTS ROLL CALL PLEASE. MAYOR. PARDON? YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILOR DENON? YES. COUNCILOR PAOLO? YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILLOR JOYNER? YES. MOTION PASSES. SIX TO ZERO. OKAY. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA [WORK SESSION] MOVE INTO OUR WORK SESSION. OUR FIRST ONE IS, UH, FOR THE, UH, ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT. MR. WARD. GOOD EVENING, MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. UH, TONIGHT'S FIRST WORK SESSION IS A ZONING AMENDMENT REQUEST [00:05:01] TO ADD MUNICIPAL FACILITY AS AN ALLOWABLE USE TO THE C ONE DISTRICT AND SUBSEQUENTLY TO ADD A DEFINITION FOR MUNICIPAL FACILITY TO ARTICLE ONE OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE. THANK YOU. UH, THE APPLICANT FOR THIS REQUEST IS THE CITY OF HOPEWELL. UM, THE C ONE DISTRICT IS OUR CONSERVATION DISTRICT, AND PRIMARILY THERE'S, THERE'S TWO AREAS OF THE CITY. THERE'S ZONE C ONE, UH, ONE, UH, EXCUSE ME. BOTH AREAS ARE LOCATED IN WARD TWO. UH, C ONE CURRENTLY ALLOWS MUNICIPAL UTILITY, BUT NOT MUNICIPAL FACILITY. AND THE REQUEST, OF COURSE, IS TO ADD MUNICIPAL FACILITY TO C ONE. UM, ALL PUBLIC NOTICE WAS PUT IN THE NEWSPAPER FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING THAT WAS HELD AT PLANNING COMMISSION. SO, JUST AS A REMINDER, WHEN DOING A ZONING TEXT AMENDMENT, IF YOU'RE ADDING AN ALLOWABLE USE TO A DISTRICT, IT IS PERMITTED THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE DISTRICT AND IT'S NOT, UH, RESTRICTED TO, UH, ANY PARTICULAR PARCEL. THE CURRENT USES IN C ONE, UM, IN THESE TWO AREAS HERE THAT ARE CIRCLED YELLOW CURRENTLY, UH, THEY ARE ZONE C ONE AND THEY HAVE AN ACTIVE WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY ON THE, UH, NORTHEAST LOCATION. AND THEN IN THE SOUTHERN LOCATION, THERE'S A DECOMMISSIONED WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY AND A DECOMMISSIONED MUNICIPAL LANDFILL. UH, THE TWO DISTRICTS, AGAIN, UH, THEY ALREADY HAVE MUNICIPAL UTILITIES, UH, AT THESE LOCATIONS, BUT, UH, MUNICIPAL FA FACILITY IS NOT A PERMITTED USE. THESE TWO AREAS ARE MOSTLY BROWN FIELDS WITH, UH, VERY LIMITED REDEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL. AND, UH, ANY AND ALL VEGETATIVE BUFFER, UH, THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDER CONSERVATION WILL BE, UH, PRESERVED. OF COURSE, LARGE PORTIONS OF THESE TWO AREAS OF THE CITY ARE ALREADY DESIGNATED RESOURCE MANAGEMENT, RESOURCE PROTECTION, AND, UH, FLOOD ZONE AREAS. WE ARE REQUESTING, UH, THAT CITY COUNCIL WILL MAKE THE APPROVAL TO ADD MUNICIPAL FACILITIES TO SECTION A OF ARTICLE 15 B CONSERVATION DISTRICT AS AN ALLOWABLE USE AND TO AMEND ORACLE ONE TO INCLUDE THE DEFINITION. THE, UH, REASON FOR THIS REQUEST, UH, COMES OUT OF THE CITY'S DESIRE TO BUILD A NEW, UH, BURN BUILDING WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. UH, IT WOULD BE AT THE SOUTHERN LOCATION HERE, SHOWN CIRCLE IN YELLOW. AND SO THAT'S WHY WE ARE ADDING MUNICIPAL FACILITY, UH, BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT QUALIFY UNDER A MUNICIPAL UTILITY. I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS. OF COURSE, THIS IS A WORK SESSION, SO NOT ASKING FOR ANY ACTION THIS EVENING. WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AT A LATER DATE. UM, QUESTION FOR YOU, UH, WHILE WE'RE GOING THROUGH AND DOING THIS, SO THAT WAY WE CAN, YOU KNOW, ADD THIS USE IN THERE. YES SIR. IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WE CAN DO ALSO AT THE SAME TIME OF DOING THIS TO, UM, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, MAKE THESE DISTRICTS MORE COMPATIBLE FOR OTHER THINGS? LIKE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE BLENDING THEM IN WITH LIKE, THE INDUSTRIAL SO THAT IT COULD, YOU KNOW, I GUESS I DON'T KNOW IF IT WOULD CONSIDER BE LIKE A QUALIFIED LIKE PROJECT THAT THEY COULD GO IN AND LIKE, TAKE SOME OF THOSE DECOMMISSIONED WASTEWATER PLANTS OUT AND PUT SOMETHING NEW IN THERE. I TRIED TO DO, I, I DID DO SOME RESEARCH ON WHY THESE WERE ZONED C ONE TO BEGIN WITH MM-HMM . UH, AND UNFORTUNATELY, I, THE DOCUMENTATION REALLY IS NOT THERE. OKAY. FROM WHEN THESE WERE ZONED C ONE, I HAVE A SUSPICION THAT THEY WERE ZONED THAT WAY, UM, BECAUSE OF SOME SORT OF REQUIREMENT WITH DEQ MM-HMM . UM, THESE ARE BROWNFIELD LOCATIONS. THEY'RE MUNICIPAL, BOTH ACTIVE AND DECOMMISSIONED, UM, PUBLIC UTILITIES THERE, UH, ESPECIALLY WITH THE DECOMMISSIONED LANDFILL, UH, THAT'S STILL BEING ACTIVELY MONITORED. UM, SO THE REDEVELOPMENT POTENTIAL OF EITHER ONE OF THESE LOCATIONS IS PRETTY MUCH NON-EXISTENT. UM, I CAN CERTAINLY CHECK INTO IT. MM-HMM. BUT I WOULD WANT TO SPEAK WITH DEQ FIRST, UH, BEFORE WE MADE ANY MOVES TO CHANGE THE C ONE. ONLY REASON, I WAS JUST ASKING IF THERE WAS CERTAIN LANGUAGE THAT WE COULD ADD INTO MAYBE SOME OF THE ZONING ORDINANCES THAT COULD MAKE IT MORE COMPETITIVE FOR BROWNFIELDS GROUND GRANTS OR VARIOUS TYPES OF, UM, REDEVELOPMENT GRANTS LIKE THAT. I MEAN, OF COURSE IT'S NOT MY, MY BAIL WICK. SURE. UM, BUT YEAH, I'M JUST THINKING, YOU KNOW, WHILE WE'RE GOING THROUGH THIS EXERCISE, THIS MIGHT BE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, TO KNOCK TWO BIRDS OUT WITH ONE STONE. UM, LET ME LOOK INTO IT FOR YOU. I, I'M NOT COMFORTABLE REALLY ANSWERING THAT. OH, SURE. YEAH. EVENING. UM, ESSENTIALLY IF WE WERE TO ADD SOMETHING TO THIS, I, I WOULD HAVE TO START AGAIN BACK AT THE PLANNING COMMISSION [00:10:01] AND THE PUBLIC HEARING PROCESS. SO THE, THIS PROCESS WOULD'VE TO START OVER IF WE WANTED TO ADD SOMETHING, UH, ALONG WITH THE MUNICIPAL FACILITIES MM-HMM . UM, THAT'S NOT TO SAY WE COULDN'T JUST ADD SOMETHING LATER. UM, THAT WOULD BE IN LINE WITH WHAT YOU'RE ASKING ABOUT. OKAY. IT'S, IT'S NOT DIFFICULT TO DO, BUT I WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE TO SPEAK WITH DEQ AND TRY TO GET SOME MORE HISTORY ON WHY THIS IS C ONE TO BEGIN WITH. OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR MR. WARD? OKAY. SEEING NO LIGHTS, UH, WORK SESSION NUMBER TWO. I HAVE A QUESTION, UHHUH WITH THIS. THIS IS FOR THE, UH, WHAT DO YOU CALL, LIKE THE BURN BUILDING? IS THIS WHAT THIS IS? CAN, CAN WE DO A, A MOTION TO WAIVE THE AND AND ACCEPT THIS? I MEAN, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S BEING REQUESTED BY FROM THE CITY AND SOMETHING THAT WE HAD AGREED ON FROM THE BEGINNING. UM, AND I, I THINK, I THINK WE'VE DONE THIS. I THINK THERE'S A PUBLIC HEARING REQUIREMENT. MM-HMM . THERE IS STATE LAW REQUIRES THAT COME BACK TO YOU FOR A PUBLIC HEARING AT CITY COUNCIL. A PUBLIC HEARING PORTION. YES, SIR. OKAY. AND WE'RE PREPARED TO DO THAT AT YOUR, ONE OF YOUR JANUARY MEETINGS. SO JUST A FEW WEEKS, SIR. THANK YOU. DOES IT REQUIRE TWO READINGS OR JUST ONE READING? UH, IF FIVE OR MORE OF YOU AGREE TO APPROVE IT, ONLY IT CAN BE APPROVED ON THE FIRST READING. OKAY. MM-HMM . PERFECT. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. UH, THE SECOND WORK SESSION ITEM THIS EVENING IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUEST TO CONSTRUCT SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING ON A NON-CONFORMING LOT. UH, THIS RELATES TO PARCEL 0 1 3 1 2 1 0, LOCATED ON ATLANTIC STREET. THE APPLICANT IS SRB INVESTORS, LLLC, AND THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION IS LOCATED IN WARD THREE. IT'S ZONED R TWO RESIDENTIAL MEDIUM, UH, DENSITY. AND AGAIN, THE REQUEST IS TO CONSTRUCT THIS SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING. ON THE LEFT IS A GENERAL LOCATION OF THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY, AND ON THE RIGHT IS A, IS A ZOOMED IN, UH, AERIAL IMAGE OF THE PROPERTY IN QUESTION. THE BOUNDARY LINES AS SHOWN IN THIS ON, IN THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT, UM, IS NOT UP TO DATE BECAUSE THE APPLICANT HAS GONE THROUGH AN ADMINISTRATIVE RE SUBDIVISION. SO HE ACTUALLY OWNS THE TWO PERPENDICULAR PARCELS AT THE REAR OF THE ONE HIGHLIGHTED IN BLUE. AND THOSE WERE ALL CONSOLIDATED INTO ONE. SO NOW, UM, HE, HE ACTUALLY OWNS THE PARCEL WITH THE HOUSE THAT'S CURRENTLY ON THE CORNER. AND THEN THE, THE ADJACENT PARCEL IN BLUE IS THE ONE IN QUESTION FOR THIS EVENING. BUT AGAIN, THE TWO PERPENDICULAR LOTS BEHIND IT HAVE BEEN COMBINED INTO THE TWO PARCELS IN THE FRONT. SO WE WENT FROM FOUR DOWN TO TWO. JUST WANTED TO NOTE THAT FOR, FOR CLARIFICATION'S SAKE, THE PARTICULAR LOT IN QUESTION, WHICH IS PARCEL 0 1 3 1 2, 1 0, UM, AGAIN, IS ZONED R TWO AND THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE. UH, AND STANDARD FOR R TWO LOTS IS 75 FEET WIDE AND 7,500 SQUARE FEET. THIS PARTICULAR PARCEL IS ONLY 60 FEET WIDE, UH, BUT DOES MEET THE 7,500 SQUARE FOOT, UH, REQUIREMENT. SO THE NON-CONFORMITY WITH THIS PARTICULAR PARCEL IS IN THE WIDTH. THE IMAGE ON THE RIGHT IS, UH, AN ELEVATION OF THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE. THE FRONT ELEVATION, UH, CAPE COD STYLE HOUSE. IT'S, UM, TWO STORY, THREE BEDROOM, TWO AND A HALF BATH, 2040 SQUARE FEET. AGAIN, ELEVATIONS ON THE SIDES. AND, UH, THE PROPOSED DWELLING IS LARGER THAN THE AVERAGE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING, UH, WITHIN THAT AREA. AND THOSE, THAT AVERAGE SIZE IS 1,267 SQUARE FEET. THIS PARTICULAR HOUSE, THE APPLICANT'S PROPOSING VINYL SIDING, WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH THE OTHER HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. AND, UM, CAPE COD STYLE, IT'S PRETTY COMMON IN HOPEWELL. WE DON'T NORMALLY SEE THESE WITH CUP APPLICATIONS, SO IT'S NICE TO SEE A CAPE COD STYLE AND IT'LL FIT NICELY INTO THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE APPLICATION'S CONSISTENT WITH THE SEVEN CUP APPROVAL CRITERIA, AS WELL AS THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THIS APPLICATION. UH, WITH THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS. THE SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING WILL HAVE 12 INCH MINIMUM EAVES. UH, THE LOT WILL HAVE MINIMUM COVERAGE OF [00:15:01] 20% TREE CANOPY AT FULL MATURITY. A DRIVEWAY OF ASPHALT OR CONCRETE WILL BE INSTALLED. THE FOUNDATION WILL HAVE BRICK OR STONE ON ALL FOUR SIDES, ALONG WITH FOUNDATION PLANTINGS. AND ESSENTIALLY THE HOUSE THAT'LL BE CONSTRUCTED WILL BE IN SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANCE WITH THESE HOUSE PLANS AS PRESENTED IN, UH, AND WERE PRESENTED TO PLANNING COMMISSION AND APPROVED ON NOVEMBER 14TH, UH, WITH ANY MODIFICATIONS, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION STUCK WITH STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. THERE WERE NO, THEY WERE, DIDN'T ADD OR DETRACT ANY. THEY'RE THE SAME. AND AGAIN, WORK SESSION, NOT ASKING FOR ANY ACTION THIS EVENING, BUT I AM AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS. OKAY. ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR MR. WARD? NO. OKAY. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, [REGULAR MEETING] WE'RE GONNA ROLL INTO OUR REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING. I'M GONNA CALL THIS MEETING TO ORDER. ROLL CALL PLEASE. MAYOR. PARDON? HERE. VICE MAYOR GORE. HERE. COUNCILLOR JOYNER. HERE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS. HERE. COUNCILLOR DENTON. HERE. COUNCILOR LUM. HERE. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY. EXCUSE. YOU HAVE A QUORUM. OKAY. AT THIS TIME IS THERE A MOTION TO ADD? OH, EXCUSE ME, I'M SORRY. UM, AT THIS TIME WE'LL HAVE THE PRAYER DONE BY PASTOR HART, FOLLOWED BY THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG BY COUNCILLOR DENTON. PLEASE RISE. HEAVENLY FATHER, ON THIS EVENING, WE HAVE GATHERED TOGETHER TO DO BUSINESS FOR THE CITY AND ITS PEOPLE. LORD, WE ASK THAT YOU WOULD BLESS THOSE THAT'S IN CHARGE, THAT YOU WOULD MOVE MIGHTILY, THAT THEY WOULD MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS THAT WOULD BLESS THE CITY AND THE PEOPLE IN YOUR PRECIOUS SON'S NAME, A MAN. AMEN. I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION UNDER GOD INTO VISIBLE WITH THE UNIVERSITY. JUSTICE FOR ALL. AT THIS TIME, IS THERE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE REGULAR MEETING AGENDA? COUNCIL? OKAY. UH, MOTIONS MADE BY COUNCILOR PELLUM AND SECONDED, I THINK BY COUNCIL JOINER. ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? YES. UH, CAN I MAKE A, UH, AMENDMENT TO CHANGE THE ORDER OF INFORMATION PRESENTATION TO THE PITTSBURGH SYMPHONY TO BE FIRST IN FRONT OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENT? YEAH. SO YOU JUST WANNA AMEND THE AGENDA? YEAH. YEAH. ARE YOU OKAY WITH THAT COUNCILOR JOYNER? ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NO LIGHTS ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON? YES. VICE MAYOR WARD? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILLOR PELLUM. YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILLOR JOYNER? YES. MOTION PASSES. SEVEN TO ZERO. [CONSENT AGENDA] OKAY. IS THERE A MOTION TO ADOPT THE CONSENT AGENDA? SO MOVED. SECOND. OKAY. UH, MOTION HAS BEEN MADE BY COUNCILLOR JOYNER AND SECONDED BY COUNCILLOR PELLUM. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION SEEING NO LIGHTS ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR. PARDON? YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILLOR PE? YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILLOR JOYNER? YES. MOTION PASSES. SEVEN TO ZERO. [INFORMATION/PRESENTATIONS] OKAY. UH, MOVING ON TO INFORMATION AND PRESENTATION. UM, AT THIS TIME, OH, AT THIS TIME, I'D LIKE TO ASK, UM, ALL MEMBERS FROM THE PETERSBURG, UH, SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA TO PLEASE COME UP. AND THEN ALSO, UH, ANY FORMER MEMBERS OF CITY COUNCIL, UH, IN THE AUDIENCE THAT HELPED, UH, WITH THIS PARTIC OR THIS PARTNERSHIP ALONG WITH, UH, CURRENT CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS. YEAH. ARE WE GONNA STAY IN THE FRONT, RIGHT? YEAH. RIGHT. I WOULD JUST LIKE TO TAKE THIS SHOW TO THANK THE PETER WORTH S EVERY YEAR THEY COME TO GRANT THE CITIZENS OF ONE NIGHT OF REFRESHING MUSIC TO OUR SOULS. UH, [00:20:01] NORMALLY WAS CHRISTMAS, THIS YEAR'S GONNA BE IN THE SPRING, AND I STARTED A PARTNERSHIP 10 YEARS AGO. AND AS A RESULT, THEY WANTED TO THANK US FOR OUR SUPPORT OF THEM. AND OF COURSE, I WANTED TO THANK THEM FOR SUPPORTING US AS WELL. MR. LOU, DR. LEWIS IS THE PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT OF THE PETERSBURG SYMPHONY. YOU MADE SPACE WORDS, IF YOU WISH, AND INTRODUCE THE YOUNG LADIES AND YOUNG MEN. . ACTUALLY, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THEM ALL. GOOD EVENING. UH, I JUST, CAN WE GET TO THE BACK? SURE. CAN I ACTUALLY READ WHAT I WROTE? YES. OKAY, GOOD. I'LL PULL THIS DOWN. SO, DEAR MEMBERS OF THE HOPEWELL CITY COUNCIL AND RESIDENTS OF HOPEWELL SEASONS, GREETINGS TO ALL OF YOU. I'M DR. KENNETH W. LEWIS, A RESIDENT OF PETERSBURG, VIRGINIA, AND THE CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE PETERSBURG SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA, PSO. AND I'M HERE TODAY TO EXTEND MY HEARTFELT GRATITUDE FOR YOUR UNWAVERING SUPPORT FOR OUR ORCHESTRA OVER THESE LAST 10 YEARS. 10 YEARS AGO, IN 2014, YOUR ESTEEMED RESIDENT, THE LATE MRS. MARY ADAMS, APPROACHED THIS CITY COUNCIL SEEKING FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE FOR THE PSO TO HOST A SPECIAL ANNUAL CONCERT AT THE HISTORIC BEACON THEATER. THANKS TO YOUR GENEROSITY AND HER TENACITY, YOU CONTRIBUTED $4,000 THAT YEAR, AND YOU HAVE CONTRI. YOU HAVE CONTINUED THIS SUPPORT ANNUALLY. AS A RESULT, WE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO PRESENT A WONDERFUL CONCERT PERFORMANCE AT THE BEACON THEATER EVERY MARCH. YOUR FINANCIAL CONTRIBUTIONS HAVE BEEN INVALUABLE, BUT EVEN MORE SO HAS BEEN YOUR MORAL SUPPORT FROM THE COMMUNITY, YOUR ENTHUSIASTIC APPLAUSE AND YOUR WARM HOSPITALITY THAT HAS MADE US FEEL TRULY WELCOMED IN OUR CITY AND OUR, OUR SISTER CITY OF HOPEWELL. EACH YEAR, I LOOK FORWARD TO OPENING OUR CONCERT WITH GREETINGS THAT CELEBRATE OUR PARTNERSHIP AND RECOGNIZE TWO REMARKABLE HOPEWELL CITIZENS. THE LATE MRS. MARY D. ADAMS AND HER SISTER, MS. VIRGINIA DIOR. BOTH HAVE BEEN STEADFAST PATRONS OF THE PSO AND DEAR FRIENDS TO ME. I ALSO FONDLY RECALL OUR PERFORMANCE AT GRANT'S HEADQUARTERS AT CITY POINT APPOMATTOX MANOR IN AUGUST, 2012, WHERE WE PRESENTED SHIKOWSKY'S 1812 OVERTURE, ALONGSIDE THE THEN FORT LEE 392ND ARMY BAND WITH LIVE CANNON DETACHMENT. AND I, I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY OF YOU WERE HERE THEN FOR THAT, BUT, UH, UH, IT WAS QUITE THE, THE, THE AFTERNOON THAT YOU WOULD HEAR LIVE CANNONS FIRED AND A SYMPHONY PLAYING OUR HOLIDAY CONCERT THAT WE JUST HAD, UH, HANDLED SOME S DREW 800 PEOPLE TO THE PETERSBURG HIGH SCHOOL AUDITORIUM THIS PAST SUNDAY, DECEMBER THE EIGHTH. AND WE'RE EXCITED TO ANNOUNCE OUR TENTATIVE UPCOMING PERFORMANCE AT THE BEACON THEATER ON SUNDAY AFTERNOON, MARCH THE NINTH, 4:00 PM WHERE WE WILL PRESENT KICKED BACK CLASSICS. AND WE HOPE THAT YOU ALL WILL ATTEND. WE'RE DEEPLY GRATEFUL FOR YOUR CONTINUED SUPPORT, WHICH ALLOWS US TO SECURE THE LEGACY OF DR. GA'S PSO TO SUSTAIN THE DREAM OF DR. GA'S PSO, TO SHARE THE EXCITEMENT OF DR. GA'S PSOS PERFORMANCES AND TO SUPPORT THE WONDERFUL SOUND OF MUSIC THAT ENRICHES OUR COMMUNITY. THANK YOU AGAIN, ONCE AGAIN FOR YOUR GENEROSITY AND BELIEF IN OUR MISSION, AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO CONTINUING THIS WONDERFUL PARTNERSHIP WITH THE CITY OF HOPEWELL VIRGINIA. WARM REGARDS. KENNETH W. LEWIS PHD, PRESIDENT PETERSBURG SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA, AND WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF MAYOR . OF THE MAYOR. RIGHT, SIR. THANK YOU. AND I, BY THE WAY, UH, FANG IS A LITTLE 12 POUND CHIHUAHUA AND HE AND I ENJOY YOUR RIVER WALK ON OCCASION. I WAS THE ONE WHO SENT HIM A LETTER INDICATING TO CUT A TREE DOWN THAT HAD FALLEN OVER THE STEPS THAT GOES DOWN. UH, THERE ARE MANY, THE FOLK IN HA IN, IN, IN, UH, THIS CITY THAT I KNOW OR KNEW THE, THE GILLIAMS WHO LIVED ON MAPLE THORPE, AND OF COURSE THE HARRIS FAMILY, CURTIS HARRIS. SO, UH, AND OF MY, MY TWO NEWEST FRIENDS, UH, MS. MARY ADAMS, THE LATE MS. MARY ADAMS AND HER WONDERFUL SISTER, VIRGINIA DIOR, THEY'VE BEEN GREAT, GREAT SUPPORTERS OF THE PETERSBURG SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA, AND WE THANK YOU FOR THAT. AND, UH, THESE ARE SOME CERTIFICATES THAT SIMPLY SAY THANK YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT OF THE PETERSBURG [00:25:01] SYMPHONY DURING YOUR TENURE AS A HOPEWELL CITY COUNCIL MEMBER. THERE ARE MANY NAMES ON HERE, AND SO I DON'T, UH, NOT, I DON'T APOLOGIZE FOR NOT KNOWING. I JUST DIDN'T KNOW ALL THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN. BUT THEY'RE HERE. AND HOWEVER YOUR PROTOCOL DICTATES THAT, WE HAND THEM OUT. I'M RIGHT AT YOUR SIDE. AND, UH, WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVING ON THE WILCOX WATERSHED CONSERVANCY. . WELL, I ALSO WANNA SAY, UM, SOMETHING ELSE THAT THEY DO THAT PROBABLY DOESN'T GET HIGHLIGHTED ENOUGH IS THE FACT THAT YOU GUYS ACTUALLY ALLOW HIGH SCHOOLERS YES. TO COME IN AND BE A PART OF THE PERFORMANCES. AND MY VERY FIRST ONE, UM, I GOTTA SEE SOME HOPEWELL HIGH SCHOOL, UH, ORCHESTRA MEMBERS OR STUDENTS, UH, PARTICIPATE. AND YOU WOULD'VE THOUGHT THEY WERE PROFESSIONALS. THAT'S RIGHT ON THERE. THAT'S RIGHT. UM, SO YES, UH, WE HAVE, UH, CERTIFICATES FOR, UM, OUR CURRENT MEMBERS ON CITY COUNCIL AND THEN ALSO FOR, UM, MEMBERS THAT HAVE HELPED OUT WITH ORGANIZING, UM, LIKE THESE WONDERFUL CITIZENS OVER HERE. SO, SO YEAH, I'LL GIVE THEM TO YOU. AND HOW DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED, WAYNE? YEAH. UH, WAYNE IS THE ONLY PRIOR TO THE COUNCIL MEMBER WHO COME TONIGHT TO RECEIVE A CERTIFICATE, BUT WE'LL GET THE OTHER ONES IN. THE OTHER MEMBERS AS WELL. HE WAS ONE OF THE INITIAL VOTES. YOU CITIZEN. OKAY. WE'LL HAVE THOSE TO YOU GUYS SOON. AND THEN THESE PEOPLE SPOKE 10 YEARS AGO. WOULD ALL OF YOU RAISE YOUR HANDS? THE ONES WHO SPOKE 10 YEARS AGO? , THANK YOU. 'CAUSE I WANT TO GIVE RECOGNITION TO THE PEOPLE THAT, UM, CREATED A PRESENTATION TO GIVE 10 YEARS AGO. AND I THINK BECAUSE OF THEIR HEARTFELT PRESENTATION, THE COUNCIL VOTED UNANIMOUSLY 10 YEARS AGO. IT'S ALREADY BEEN 10 YEARS. SO THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE SPEAKING, AND WE HAVE ONE SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA MEMBER. YES, SCOTT. HE PLAYS WITH THE YES, I WAS, I WAS, I WAS HERE WHEN? IN 2014 WHEN WE BEGAN. THANK YOU. WERE YOU THE PEOPLE THAT WERE HERE? RAISE YOUR HANDS. NO, THAT SPOKE. REMEMBER IT. WHICH YEAR DID YOU GUYS DO? UH, JURASSIC PARK. IT WAS ONE OF THOSE YEARS. . SO GOOD. YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M GONNA GO BACK AND TELL THE BOARD THAT. WE'LL PULL THAT ONE UP AGAIN AND THEN DO IT, UH, IN 2026. I GET EVERYBODY COMING TO GET A LITTLE BIT CLOSER SO WE CAN GET A GROUP. LET'S GO, GO OVER HERE TO THIS GUY. CAN WE GET A COUPLE PEOPLE OVER HERE? IF YOU DON'T MIND? I NEED YOU GUYS TO A LITTLE BIT MORE FRIENDLIER THE CENTER. WE GOT IT. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CONGRATULATIONS. THANK YOU. UM, MAYOR, PARTNER. YES, THERE'S, THERE'S, THANK YOU. HOPE WELL, WE PLEASE ALWAYS COME OUT TO SUPPORT. AND WE THANK YOU FOR A BIG CROWD THAT YOU ALL BRING TO THE BEACON THEATER HERE. THANK YOU. OKAY. SEASON GREETING. EVERYBODY. EVERYBODY. YOU TOO. THANK [00:30:01] YOU, . ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO OUR SECOND PRESENTATION. UH, MR. RUPERT, UH, WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL. I APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TONIGHT TO, UH, GIVE YOU A, A PRESENTATION ON, UM, OUR STAFFING SITUATION AT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT. UM, YOU'VE RECEIVED A NUMBER OF MEMOS OVER THE LAST TWO MONTHS, UH, INDICATING SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE AT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT RIGHT NOW. AND SO, UM, UH, I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE A, A GOOD OPPORTUNITY IN, IN, UM, CONSULTATION WITH THE CITY MANAGER TO GIVE YOU AN UPDATE TONIGHT ON WHERE WE ARE. UM, I'M GONNA GO THROUGH KIND OF FAST. I KNOW I, I HAVE 10 MINUTES HERE, SO I'M GONNA TRY TO TALK ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. UM, FIRST I'D LIKE TO JUST, UH, JUST A QUICK REMINDER OF, OF WHAT OUR, OUR NORMAL STAFFING IS. SO WE HAVE 48, 48 FULL-TIME POSITIONS. UH, BASICALLY THREE SHIFTS OF 16 IS OUR OPERATIONAL STAFF. UM, CURRENTLY WE HAVE 12, UH, VACANCIES, BUT OPERATIONALLY WE'RE DOWN 15, WHICH IS ALMOST AN ENTIRE SHIFT, UM, DUE TO THE FACT THAT THREE OF OUR POSITIONS ARE CURRENTLY IN ROOKIE SCHOOL, AND THEY WON'T COMPLETE THAT UNTIL THE END OF JANUARY. UM, ON A NORMAL DAY, OUR MINIMUM STAFFING IS 13, UM, WHICH IS EIGHT PEOPLE AT STATION. ONE, ONE BATTALION CHIEF, AN ENGINE WITH, UH, ONE CAPTAIN AND TWO FIREFIGHTERS, A MEDIC WITH ONE MEDIC AND A FIREFIGHTER. AND THEN, UH, A QUINT AND A THIRD MEDIC OR A SECOND MEDIC. THAT'S STAFF, CROSS STAFF. SO DEPENDING ON WHICH KIND OF CALL WE GET FIRST, THEY'LL EITHER BE ON THE, ON THE, UH, QUINT OR THEY'LL GET ON THE, THE AMBULANCE DEPENDING ON THE, UH, THE ORDER OF THE CALLS. UH, AT STATION TWO, WE HAVE A TOTAL OF FIVE FOLKS. WE HAVE AN ENGINE THAT'S STAFF WITH THREE A, A CAPTAIN, AND TWO FIREFIGHTERS, AND THEN A MEDIC THAT, UH, HAS A MEDIC AND A FIREFIGHTER. UH, I PRESENTED TO YOU BEFORE IN THE PAST, UH, AT OUR BUDGET, UH, THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE ON A REGULAR DAY, AND THE FACT THAT 13 IS ACTUALLY A DEFICIT WHEN IT COMES TO NATIONAL STANDARDS. UM, TYPICALLY A A REGULAR HOUSE FIRE, YOU KNOW, NOT AN APARTMENT COMPLEX, NOT A INDUSTRIAL FIRE, BUT JUST A REGULAR STRUCTURE FIRE. UH, IT SHOULD HAVE A COMPLIMENT OF 16 FIREFIGHTERS, UH, ARRIVING ON THE SCENE. UH, WE HAVE 13 ON A DAILY BASIS, AND THAT INCLUDES OUR MEDICS. UM, UH, SO YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT INCLUDES MEDICS THAT, UH, HAVE LIMITED FIREFIGHTER TRAINING, UM, AND CAN DO LIMITED THINGS AT THE SCENE OF A FIRE. SO THAT'S, THAT'S NORMAL OPERATIONS, REGULAR DAY TO DAY. UM, I SENT YOU A MEMO. UH, WELL, I SENT A MEMO TO THE CITY MANAGER THAT, THAT SHE PASSED ON TO YOU, UH, DATED SEPTEMBER 23RD. UM, WE, WITH THE REDUCTION IN OUR STAFFING DUE TO, UH, PEOPLE LEAVING AND WHATEVER THE CASE, YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT THINGS, UM, AND BEING DOWN SO FAR, UH, WE HAVE A NUMBER OF CHALLENGES WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, MAINTAINING OUR MINIMUM STAFFING. SO IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT, WE DO A THING CALLED DRAFTING. UM, AND SO IF YOU'RE AT WORK AND THE FOLLOWING DAY IS SHORT, UH, YOU'RE DRAFTED TO STAY, UM, WHICH MEANS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE. UM, YOU HAVE TO STAY. AND IF YOU DON'T STAY, UH, THEN YOU'RE DISCIPLINED. UM, SO, UM, AND, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THERE'S NOT GONNA BE TOO MANY OF THOSE AND YOU WON'T BE AN EMPLOYEE ANYMORE. UM, AND SO YOU CAN IMAGINE THAT ANYBODY THAT'S DRAFTED IS USUALLY NOT AN A HAPPY EMPLOYEE, UH, BECAUSE THEY HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE THINGS TO DO, UM, AT HOME, UH, WITH THEIR FAMILY, UH, WHATEVER ELSE, OTHER OBLIGATIONS THEY HAVE. AND IF THEY'RE DRAFTED, THAT MEANS THAT THEY'RE BEING FORCED TO STAY THERE AGAINST THEIR WILL. AND SO DRAFTING IS NOT SOMETHING, TRY SOMETHING THAT WE TRY TO AVOID, BUT SOMETHING, AND UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE TO DO QUITE OFTEN. UM, IT WAS GETTING TO A POINT, UH, RIGHT BEFORE THIS MEMO THAT LOOKING AHEAD AND FORECASTING WHERE WE WERE GONNA BE, WE RECOGNIZED THE FACT THAT THERE WOULD ACTUALLY BE DAYS THAT DUE TO THE NUMBER OF OVERTIME STAFF THAT WAS ALREADY WORKING ON A DAY, WE WOULDN'T EVEN HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE TO DRAFT TO FILL THE FOLLOWING SHIFT. UM, AND SO, UH, WE WERE REALLY AT A, AT A VERY, UM, UH, UH, BAD SITUATION WHEN IT CAME TO, UH, THE NUMBER OF DRAFTS THAT WERE OCCURRING AND REALLY GETTING TO A POINT WHERE WE'RE WEARING OUT OUR STAFF. YOU CAN UNDERSTAND IF WHEN YOU'RE WORKING 24 HOURS, THEN YOU'RE OFF FOR 48. IF YOU'RE DRAFTED, THEN YOU'RE WORKING FOR 48 HOURS AND YOU'RE OFF FOR 24 ONLY TO COME BACK FOR ANOTHER 24 THE FOLLOWING DAY. AND SO, UH, WITH OUR CALL VOLUME, UM, THAT, THAT CAN QUICKLY BECOME UNSUSTAINABLE. AND SO WE LOOKED AT OUR STAFFING LEVELS, AND I CAN TELL YOU AS A FIRE CHIEF, ESPECIALLY LOOKING AT THE, THE NUMBERS THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED ABOUT US BEING ALREADY AT A DEFICIT ON A REGULAR DAY, UH, THE LAST THING I WANT TO DO IS ALLOW LESS THAN 13 TO WORK ON A DAILY BASIS. HOWEVER, WE WERE AT A PLACE THAT I KNEW IF WE DIDN'T MAKE A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE VERY SOON, THEN WE WOULD PROBABLY ALSO LOSE PEOPLE TO THE FACT THAT THEY JUST DIDN'T WANT TO CONTINUE THIS TYPE OF, OF, OF TEMPO ON WORKING OVERTIME. AND SO, UH, HENCE THE MEMO THAT I SENT OUT, UM, ALLOWING US TO GO TO, UH, 11 AT CERTAIN DAYS. NOW, WE ALWAYS PUT OUT [00:35:01] FOR VOLUNTARY OVERTIME AND TRY TO GET TO OUR, OUR MINIMUM STAFFING OF 13. UM, BUT THERE'S, UH, UH, BUT IT ALSO DOESN'T ALLOW, DOESN'T FORCE US TO DRAFT PEOPLE, UH, UNTIL WE GOT TO THE NUMBER 11. UM, AND THAT WOULD MEAN THAT WE WOULD DROP, UH, A PERSON OFF OF OUR TWO AMBULANCE AMBULANCES. NOW, THERE IS AN, THERE IS AN, AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT, UM, WHICH, UH, A NUMBER OF FIRE CHIEFS COULD CERTAINLY SUGGEST. AND, AND THEY COULD, UH, YOU KNOW, ARGUE THAT POINT BEFORE YOU, WHICH WOULD BE TO BROWN SOMETHING OUT, WHAT WE'D CALL BROWN SOMETHING OUT AND BASICALLY TAKE SOMETHING OUTTA SERVICE. UM, WE COULD HAVE BROWNED OUT A, AN, UH, AN AMBULANCE, SO TO SPEAK, SPEAK. THAT WOULD'VE BEEN THE FIRST THING THAT WE WOULD'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO. WE REALLY CAN'T BROWN OUT AN ENGINE. WE'RE ALREADY SHORT, UH, ONLY DOWN TO TWO, ONLY HAVE TWO ENGINES ON A DAILY BASIS. SO THE ONLY THING THAT WE COULD REALLY BROWN OUT WOULD BE AN AMBULANCE. AND WHAT THAT WOULD DO IS THAT WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON, ON OUR, ON OUR CITIZENS. UM, AND, AND THE THING THAT I WANT YOU ALL TO UNDERSTAND TONIGHT IS THAT WE HAVE DONE THE BEST THAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE SURE THAT THE STRUGGLES THAT WE'RE HAVING INTERNALLY IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT DON'T IMPACT, UH, THE, THE, THE SERVICE DELIVERY TO THE CITIZENS OF HOPEWELL. AND SO WE MADE THE CHOICE, RATHER THAN BROWNING SOMETHING OUT, RATHER THAN TAKING AN AMBULANCE OUTTA SERVICE TO KEEP OUR ENGINE STAFFED AT OUR THREE, UM, TO TAKE UP A STAFF MEMBER OFF OF EACH OF THOSE ENGINES. NOW, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THAT MEANS, UH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WOULD ARGUE THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT THERE'S A, THERE'S SAFETY CONCERNS WITH THAT, AND CERTAINLY THERE ARE. UM, AND THAT'S WHY WE TOOK A NUMBER OF DA NUMBER OF THINGS THAT IN THAT MEMO, THEY WERE OUTLINED IN THAT MEMO TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF, OF OUR FOLKS. ONE OF THOSE THINGS IS IF WE HAVE A WORKING FIRE, WE IMMEDIATELY CALLED FOR A MUTUAL AID, UH, ENGINE INTO THE CITY TO ASSIST OUR FIREFIGHTERS. THE OTHER THING THAT WE DID IS WE TOOK A NUMBER OF DAYS AND DID, UH, DID, UM, SOME TRAINING WITH EACH OF OUR, WHICH WITH EACH OF OUR SHIFTS TO, UH, PRACTICE, UH, THE CHANGE IN OPERATIONS THAT WE NEEDED TO DO IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO OPERATE AT 11 RATHER THAN 13. UM, AND COMING OUT OF THOSE DAYS OF TRAINING, UM, OUR, OUR, MY BATTALION STAFF AND OFFICER STAFF FELT CONFIDENT THAT OUR PEOPLE COULD DO WHAT THEY NEEDED TO DO. UH, EVEN THOUGH IT, IT, IT MEANT THAT THAT PUTTING OUT A FIRE, UH, WOULD BE MORE CHALLENGING FOR OUR FOLKS DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME. UM, ON THE NEXT SLIDE HERE, IT'S KIND OF HARD TO READ, BUT YOU CAN SEE, UH, IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS WE'VE WORKED 79, UH, HUNDRED AND 25 HOURS OF OVERTIME, UH, 4,515 OF THOSE HOURS. UH, WERE FROM SEPTEMBER 23RD, THE DATE OF THE MEMO UNTIL TODAY. ALSO IN THE BOX BELOW, YOU'RE GONNA SEE THAT WE HAVE FILLED 424 OVERTIME SHIFTS. THAT'S A 24 HOUR SHIFT, 424 OVERTIME SHIFTS. UM, O IN THAT PERIOD OF TIME, IN THE LAST, UH, UH, SIX MONTHS, UH, 93 OF THOSE WERE DRAFTS. SO 93 TIMES WE FORCED AN EMPLOYEE TO STAY AT WORK THAT THEY DID NOT WANNA STAY AT WORK. OKAY. UM, AND THEN 52 52 SHIFTS WERE THE, THE NUMBER OF SHIFTS THAT WE WERE ABLE TO AVOID DRAFTING SOMEONE BY, UH, IMPLEMENTING THIS, UH, PROCESS WHERE WE DROPPED TO 11 INSTEAD OF REMAINING AT 13. SO THAT JUST GIVES YOU AN IDEA OF SOME OF THE NUMBERS. AT THE SAME TIME, A MONTH LATER, I SENT YOU ANOTHER MEMO, UM, REGARDING THE STRUGGLES THAT WE WERE HAVING IN EMS. UM, YOU, YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BE AWARE THAT THE CITY OF HOPEWELL, UH, USED TO HAVE THE HOPEWELL EMERGENCY CREW. THE HOPEWELL EMERGENCY CREW USED TO BE THE PRIMARY EMS AGENCY IN THE CITY. THEY PROVIDED ALL OF THE EMS FOR THE CITY FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. UH, IN THE LATE NINETIES, THEY STARTED TO DROP OFF WHEN IT CAME TO THE NUMBER OF VOLUNTEERS AND VOLUNTEER HOURS. AND THE FIRE DEPARTMENT STARTED PICKING UP SOME OF THAT SLACK. UH, WHEN I CAME ON IN THE EARLY TWO THOUSANDS, UM, WE WERE, UH, ACTUALLY CARRYING THE LION'S SHARE OF THE, THE WEIGHT OF, OF THAT, OF THAT CALL VOLUME, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN IT IS TODAY. UM, THEY, UH, ACTUALLY HIRED SOME, UH, SOME STAFF TO COME IN AND, AND STAFF AMBULANCES. AND SO THE, THE CHART THAT YOU SEE THERE, YOU SEE THE BLUE IS THE NUMBER OF CALLS THAT THE, THAT THE EMERGENCY CREW RAN. AND THEN YOU SEE THE RED, THE NUMBER OF CALLS THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT RAN. YOU CAN SEE, UH, SINCE, UH, 2017 IS WHEN THAT, UH, PAID CREW AT THE EMERGENCY CREW WENT AWAY, AND THEN THEY FINALLY CLOSED COMPLETELY IN, IN, IN 2022. YOU CAN ALSO SEE OVER THAT PERIOD OF TIME THAT OUR CALL VOLUME IS ESSENTIALLY DOUBLED. UM, WE'VE ESSENTIALLY DOUBLED THE NUMBER OF CALLS THAT THAT, THAT THE FIRED UP THAT EMS CALLS THAT, THAT ARE BEING RESPONDED TO IN THE CITY OF HOPE HILL. UM, AND SO, AND IN THAT TIME, WE HAVE NOT REALLY RECEIVED, UH, THE AMOUNT OF RESOURCES THAT WE NEED TO BASICALLY TAKE ON AN ENTIRELY NEW TASK, UH, UH, THAT HAS SLOWLY BECOME OURS OVER THE COURSE OF, UH, THE LAST 20 YEARS OR SO. AND OF COURSE, NOW, UH, WITH THE EMERGENCY CREW FOLDING COMPLETELY, UH, WE ARE THE ONLY EMS AGENCY, UH, ANSWERING 9 1 1 CALLS HERE IN THE CITY. UH, CHIEF RUPERT, WE HAVE, UH, COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY THAT WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION. SURE. UH, WELL, EXCUSE ME. SO THAT'S ABOUT 12 CALLS TODAY FOR THE E-M-E-M-S. DO YOU HAVE THE NUMBERS FOR THE, UM, FOR THE ENGINES? YEAH, I DON'T, I DON'T HAVE THOSE IN FRONT OF ME, BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT EMS [00:40:01] IS ABOUT 82% OF WHAT WE DO. SO IF YOU DO THAT MATH, I CAN'T DO THAT THAT QUICK IN MY HEAD, BUT THAT'LL GIVE YOU THE, THE BALANCE OF THAT IS, IS THE NUMBER OF FIRE AND, AND OTHER CALLS THAT WE RUN ON A DAILY BASIS. FOUR, UH, FOUR DAY, THEN YOU WERE, GO BACK TO THE LAST SLIDE. IT WAS SOMETHING THAT I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT. OH, THESE, OUT THAT 7,900 THAT IS OVER, THAT'S THE OVERTIME JUST FOR LIKE THE PERIOD OF, OF, UH, SIX MONTHS. YES, SIR. SO FROM JUNE, UH, FROM JUNE ONE UNTIL TODAY, WELL, ACTUALLY, I THINK THIS WAS PULLED ON THIS 4TH OF DECEMBER. UM, THESE NUMBERS, UH, THAT WAS, IT'S 79, 25 AND THEN 45 15, BASICALLY HALF OF THAT HAS OCCURRED SINCE THE MEMO THAT YOU RECEIVED, UM, ON IN SEPTEMBER. I, I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY GET, I DON'T REMEMBER HOW MUCH THEY GET PAID IN, UH, AN HOUR, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THAT OVERTIME WOULD COMPENSATE FOR MAYBE A COUPLE OF NEW HIRES. RIGHT. SO, WELL, THE, THE CHALLENGE THAT WE'RE CURRENTLY HAVING, WHICH, UM, I WAS GONNA GET TO IN JUST A MINUTE, IS, IS, IS THAT IN FACT IS, IS HIRING IS A HUGE CHALLENGE FOR US, UM, GETTING PEOPLE IN THE DOOR TO DO THE JOB. UM, AND ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO EMS, IS THAT, UM, WOULD THAT BE SPECIFICALLY FOR PAY OR WHAT WOULD BE YOUR IMPRESSION OF PAYMENT AS TO WHY THAT IS? UH, THERE'S A NUMBER OF REASONS, BUT IF YOU DON'T MIND, I'M REALLY GONNA HIT YOUR POINTS THAT YOUR QUESTION A HUNDRED PERCENT IN THE REST OF THE PRESENTATION. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU SO MUCH. YES, SIR. UM, SO OUR, OUR REGULAR OPERATIONS WHEN IT COMES TO EMS ON A DAILY BASIS, TWO I I, WE CALL IT TWO AND A HALF AMBULANCES. ESSENTIALLY THERE'S THREE AMBULANCES, BUT THE ONE IS CROSS STAFFED, UH, WITH THE QUINT. SO THAT MEANS THAT IF THERE'S A FIRE CALL, THEN THAT AMBULANCE IS NOT IN SERVICE. UM, AND, UH, WE ALSO FEEL TOO A, OUR, BOTH OF OUR ENGINES ARE ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT. UM, ONE CLARIFICATION, YOU KNOW, THE STATE'S DEFINITION OF ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT IS, UH, EMT ENHANCER, EMT ADVANCED. UM, OUR DEFINITION IN THE FIRE DEPARTMENT IS BASICALLY AN INTERMEDIATE OR PARAMEDIC 'CAUSE IT'S A HIGHER LEVEL OF CARE. AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE, HAVE PROVIDED FOR MANY YEARS, AND THAT'S WHAT WE CONTINUE TO, TO, TO TRY TO PROVIDE THE BEST THAT WE CAN. UM, BECAUSE HOWEVER OF OUR REDUCTION, SO ON A NORMAL DAY, UH, OUR NORMAL OPERATIONS, WE REALLY NEED SIX ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT PROVIDERS ON A SHIFT. UH, IN ADDITION TO THE CAPTAINS WHO ARE ADVANCED LIFE SUPPLIER, UH, ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT PROVIDERS WITH A TOTAL DEPARTMENT TOTAL OF 18, IN ORDER TO REALLY MAINTAIN, UH, ALL THREE OF THESE AMBULANCES AS ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT, WHICH IS REALLY THE STANDARD OF CARE TODAY. UM, WE'RE DOWN TO 11 A LS PROVIDERS. THAT'S A SEVEN PROVIDER DEFICIT. UM, AND, UH, AND WE ALSO ALLOW OUR MEDIC, OUR THIRD OUT MEDIC TO DROP TO, UH, EEMT ADVANCED OR EMT ENHANCED, UM, ON SOME DAYS WHEN STAFFING, UM, DOESN'T ALLOW US TO HAVE A INTERMEDIATE OR PARAMEDIC IN THAT AMBULANCE. UM, AND SO THE, THE, THE SHORT MESSAGE IS IT IS STARTING TO IMPACT OUR OPERATIONS. IT'S STARTING TO IMPACT SERVICE DELIVERY. WE'RE TRYING TO, TO MINIMIZE THAT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S BEGINNING TO, TO MAKE AN IMPACT. UM, THE BIG ISSUE THAT WE HAVE GOING BACK TO, UH, UM, UH, COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY'S QUESTION IS THAT 82%, AS I SAID, OF OUR CALL VOLUME IS EMS. AND SO THE EMS PROVIDERS ARE REALLY CARRYING THE LION'S SHARE OF THE CALL VOLUME THAT WE HAVE. UM, WE, WHEN WE STARTED THE EMS ONLY PROGRAM, WE DID SO ON A, ON THE SAME, THE SAME SCHEDULE AS OUR FIREFIGHTERS ARE ON 24 48. UM, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE CARRYING THE MAJORITY OF THE LOAD OF THAT, OF THAT CALL VOLUME. AND THEY'RE GETTING REALLY, UH, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S BECOMING UNSUSTAINABLE AT THAT WITH THAT SCHEDULE, ESPECIALLY IF THEY HAVE TO WORK AN OVERTIME SHIFT. NOW THERE'S 48 HOURS OF THEM RUNNING THE, THE, THE LION'S SHARE OF THE CALLS, AND THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE BASICALLY GETTING BURNOUT. UM, AND, AND WE'VE HAD A NUMBER OF, WE'VE HAD SOME LEAVE, UH, DUE TO THAT BURNOUT. UM, AND SO WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO RECRUIT, UH, WE'VE RECRUIT IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS AS WE HAVE RECRUITED, UH, WE HAVE GOTTEN ONE APPLICANT. UM, AND THAT APPLICANT DID NOT PASS OUR TESTING PROCESS. UM, AND SO WE KNEW WE HAD TO DO SOMETHING DRASTIC. UM, WE ARE SECOND LOWEST PAID IN THE REGION, UH, AND WE'RE NOT OFFERING ANYTHING THAT ANYBODY ELSE ISN'T. AND I'LL BE HONEST WITH YOU, WE'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES LOOKING FOR A LS PROVIDERS. PRINCE GEORGE IS LOOKING FOR A A LS PROVIDERS. CHESTERFIELD'S LOOKING FOR A LS PROVIDERS. EVERYBODY IS, THERE'S A SHORTAGE OF A LS PROVIDERS THAT ARE WILLING TO WORK. AND SO I KNEW THAT WE HAD TO OFFER SOMETHING THAT THESE OTHER LOCALITIES ARE NOT OFFERING IN ORDER, IN, IN ORDER FOR US TO BE ABLE TO HAVE IN, IN ORDER TO, UM, GET PEOPLE IN. AND SO AT ONE OF OUR STAFF MEETINGS, IT WAS SUGGESTED [00:45:01] THAT WE CHANGE THE MEDICS TO A 24 72 SCHEDULE, WHICH GIVES THEM AN EXTRA DAY BREAK IN BETWEEN THEIR WORK DAYS AND ALLOWS THEM TO HAVE A MORE SUSTAINABLE, UH, SCHEDULE FOR THEM AND, AND ALLOWS THERE TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE, UH, TIME FOR THEM TO RECOUP BEFORE THEY COME BACK TO WORK. UM, THIS IS A, A VERY SOUGHT AFTER SCHEDULE. THERE ARE A VERY, THERE ARE VERY FEW LOCALITIES IN THE AREA THAT OFFER THAT. UM, CURRENTLY IN THE TRI-CITIES AREA, THERE'S ONLY ONE AND THEY ARE THE LOWEST PAY. THEY'RE THE ONLY ONES PAID LOWER THAN WE ARE, UM, THAT OFFER THAT SCHEDULE. AND SO THIS IS A SCHEDULE THAT IS SOUGHT AFTER. AND SO OUR, OUR THOUGHT PROCESS WAS THAT WE WOULD CERTAINLY GET SOME APPLICATIONS IF WE OFFER THAT SCHEDULE. NOW, THE PROBLEM, A COUPLE CHALLENGES TO THAT SCHEDULE, MAINLY BEING THAT WE WOULD NEED TO, UM, ADD, UH, A COUPLE POSITIONS, UH, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. 'CAUSE WE'RE ESSENTIALLY GONNA HAVE TO ADD A SHIFT, UH, TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. UM, UH, IN CONCERT WITH HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITH THE CITY MANAGER, UM, SHE WANTED ME TO DELAY REQUEST OF THOSE ADDITIONAL POSITIONS UNTIL THE BUDGET SEASON, WHICH MAKES SENSE TO ME. UM, BUT I, BUT I EXPLAINED TO HER MY CONCERN THAT I CANNOT ADVERTISE AND REALLY GET ANYBODY IN UNLESS I, UNLESS I START TO MOVE IN THAT DIRECTION. AND SO, AFTER HAVING GIVEN YOU GUYS THE, UH, THE MEMO, UM, WE WENT AHEAD AND ADVERTISED AND IN TWO WEEKS TIME WE HAD SEVEN APPLICATIONS. UH, UH, TODAY I MADE THREE OFFERS AND THOSE OFFERS WERE ACCEPTED, UM, UM, BASED ON, PRIMARILY BASED ON THAT SCHEDULE. UM, AND SO, UH, WE ALSO HAVE A COUPLE OTHER APPLICATIONS THAT WE HAVE HOPED FOR. UM, SO WE'RE, WE'RE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. UM, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS, UH, CONTINUING TO BE, UH, A CHALLENGE FOR US. THE END THAT WE WERE IN, THE SITUATION WE WERE IN, UH, WE ALSO DECIDED TO DO A SIGNIFICANT, UH, ADVERTISEMENT. WE HAD AN IDEA TO DO A, UH, A SAME DAY, UH, INTERVIEW, UH, IN HIRING OPEN HOUSE. UH, WE ADVERTISED THROUGH ALL SOCIAL, THE SOCIAL MEDIA AVENUES, NOT JUST LIKE REGULAR POSTS, BUT ACTUALLY PAID ADVERTISEMENT, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE HADN'T DONE BEFORE. WE EVEN PUT BILLBOARDS OUT ON 95. WE, WE REALLY DID A HUGE PUSH. UM, HAD A LOT OF STAFF, UH, THERE THAT DAY IN ORDER TO, UH, TO DO, UH, INTERVIEWS ONSITE THAT DAY. IT WAS A BIG LIFT FOR THE DEPARTMENT. UM, HOWEVER, UH, IT HAS PAID DIVIDENDS. UH, SO WE, WE, WE SPOKE TO ABOUT 40 PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THAT DAY. WE INTERVIEWED, I THINK OVER 15. UH, WE, UH, I WAS ABLE TO OFFER, UH, THREE LAST WEEK, UH, THAT, THAT HAVE ACCEPTED. AND THEN, LIKE I SAID, THREE A LS PROVIDERS TODAY, AND THEN ONE, ONE MORE FIREFIGHTER. SO WE'RE UP TO SEVEN, UH, OFFERS THAT HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED, UM, THUS FAR. SO WE'RE HEADING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. WE'RE, WE'RE MOVING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. UM, AND I HOPE THAT, UH, IN THE FEBRUARY TIMEFRAME WE'RE GONNA START TO COME OUT OF, OF THIS SITUATION THAT WE'RE IN. UM, IN ORDER FOR US TO BE SUCCESSFUL GOING FORWARD, THOUGH, UH, I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE UTILIZE THE, THE RESULTS OF THE CLASS AND COMP STUDY TO LOOK AT THE PAY DISPARITY THAT, THAT WE HAVE, THAT WE'RE FACING BETWEEN US AND THE JURISDICTIONS AROUND US. UM, YOU KNOW, I UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO BE, UH, COMPETITIVE WITH, UH, YOU KNOW, A CHESTERFIELD COUNTY OR, OR A, OR A HENRICO. I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THAT, THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO BE AT THE SAME PAY AS THEM, AND I DON'T EXPECT THAT. UM, AT THE SAME TIME, I ALSO CAN'T EXPECT A, UH, A CAPTAIN TO BE PAID LESS HERE THAN A FIREFIGHTER STARTS IN THE JURISDICTION NEXT DOOR. UM, THAT'S JUST WAY THERE'S, THAT, THAT DISPARITY IS JUST WAY TOO WIDE. AND THAT'S WHERE WE CURRENTLY ARE. UM, A LS INCENTIVES ARE REALLY IMPORTANT, AS YOU CAN SEE WHEN IT COMES TO THE MEDICAL PROFESSION. UH, THE, THESE FOLKS ARE REALLY SHORT. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT A LOT OF THE JURISDICTIONS ARE DOING IS THEY'RE GIVING ADDITIONAL INCENTIVES FOR THOSE WHO ARE ADVANCED LIFE SUPPORT PROVIDERS. UM, I'LL ALSO BE ASKING IN, IN OUR BUDGET THIS YEAR FOR, UH, A CAREER DEVELOPMENT TO BE APPROVED. UH, THAT'S SOMETHING ELSE THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR OUR A LS PROVIDERS. WE HAVE A VERY SMALL EMS STAFF, AND SO THEY DON'T HAVE THAT, THAT CAREER PROGRESSION THAT THE FIRESIDE DOES. AND SO FOR THEM, IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO HAVE A C UH, A CAREER DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT GIVES THEM A PATH FORWARD AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO, TO, UH, INCREASE THEIR, UM, UH, PAY AND, AND THEIR CAPABILITIES, UH, FOR THE CITY. AND THAT IS THE END OF MY PRESENTATION. ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE? OKAY. UH, COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY, DO, DO YOU, UH, DO YOU ALREADY HAVE, LOOKING AT A PAY INCREASE, DO YOU HAVE ANY, UM, NUMBERS AS TO WHAT IT WOULD COST THE CITY YEARLY IF EVERYBODY, UH, IN THE DEPARTMENT PAY A SET INCREASE, LIKE 3% OR 5%? OR DO WE HAVE ANYTHING ALREADY? UH, PAY, WE, WE'VE DONE, WE'VE DONE SOME, WE HAD DONE SOME PRELIMINARY STUFF. I DON'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME HERE TONIGHT TO BE ABLE TO SHARE WITH YOU. UH, WE HAD CERTAINLY DONE SOME PRELIMINARY CALCULATIONS ON, UH, SOME, SOME RAISES, BUT HONESTLY, I THINK THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, THE CLASS AND COMP STUDY IS REALLY GONNA TELL THE STORY. UH, I THINK THAT THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT, THAT EVERGREEN PROVIDES, UM, I WOULD THINK, UH, WOULD, WOULD PROBABLY BE MORE THAN [00:50:01] ADEQUATE TO GIVE YOU OPTIONS AS FAR AS WHAT IT IS THE COST WOULD BE AND WHAT IT IS THAT WE COULD, WE COULD DO. ABOUT HOW FAR IS THAT, AL? I THINK JANUARY, JANUARY, BEGINNING OF JANUARY, WE SHOULD RECEIVE SOME FEEDBACK. OKAY. SOUNDS GOOD. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YEAH, NO. UH, COUNCILLOR PELLUM, MY ANNUAL QUESTION, WOULD IT BE CHEAPER FOR US TO PURCHASE MORE AMBULANCES TO SEND PEOPLE OUT INSTEAD OF SENDING OUT THAT BIG TRUCK WHEN IT'S NOT A FIRE, BUT IT'S AN EMERGENCY ACTUALLY, BECAUSE YOU SEND A FIRE TRUCK WITH EVERY CALL, CORRECT? NO MA'AM. NO, MA'AM. SO, NO. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, ANY CALL THAT'S NOT, UH, YOU KNOW, A CRITICAL CALL, LIKE, LIKE SAY FOR INSTANCE, SAY, UH, UH, UH, UM, A BAD TRAUMA, LIKE A, A BAD CAR ACCIDENT OR A SHOOTING OR, UM, UH, A CARDIAC ARREST, UM, THOSE ARE THE CALLS THAT HAVE A FIRETRUCK GO AS WELL. AND THAT'S REALLY, UM, BECAUSE OF MANPOWER, UM, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO, WHAT DOES THE, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. SO WHAT DOES THE FIRETRUCK DO FOR A CARDIAC PATIENT? IT HAS THE A LS PERSON ON THE TRUCK, CORRECT? YES, MA'AM. SO ALL OF OUR, ALL OF OUR, OUR FIREFIGHTERS ARE TRAINED IN EMS. SO THE, THE BASELINE IS EMT, UH, OUR CAPTAINS, WHICH IS ON OUR, IS, WHICH IS ON OUR ENGINE, IS IS A PARAMEDIC OR AN INTERMEDIATE MM-HMM . THAT'S THEIR MINIMUM REQUIREMENT. SO, UM, ESSENTIALLY THE SAME CREW THAT YOU WOULD HAVE ON AN AMBULANCE IS ALSO ON AN ENGINE. UM, AND SO WE NEED THAT ADDITIONAL ASSISTANCE. THERE'S ONLY TWO PEOPLE ON AN AMBULANCE WHEN IT GOES OUT THE DOOR. SO WHEN YOU HAVE A CARDIAC ARREST OR YOU HAVE A, A SIGNIFICANT CALL, UH, IT REALLY TAKES A LOT MORE MANPOWER TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE THAT. AND SO WE, WE SUPPLEMENT THAT, THAT, UH, AMBULANCE WITH A FIRE ENGINE, BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, RIGHT? THEY, WOULD IT BE CHEAPER TO GET A CAR OR A TRUCK OR SUV THAN IT TO SPEND ALL THAT MONEY ON THE BIG ENGINE TO BE OUT THERE INSTEAD OF, I'VE ALWAYS DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE ENGINE HAS TO GO SO WELL, WE, IT CAN'T BE SUBSIDIZED WITH SOME OTHER TYPE OF CAR OR SOMETHING. SURE. WE, WE WOULD LOVE TO DO THAT, BUT THAT MEAN IT WOULD MEAN THAT YOU WOULD HAVE, WE'D HAVE TO HIRE MORE PEOPLE. SO, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT THESE ARE DUAL ROLL FOLKS. SO WHEN THEY'RE OUT THERE ON A FIRE ENGINE, OKAY, AND THEY GO TO THAT CALL ON A FIRE ENGINE, UM, THEY'RE GOING ON THE FIRE ENGINE BECAUSE THEIR PRIMARY ROLE IS A FIREFIGHTER. OKAY? THEY'RE GOING TO SUPPLEMENT THAT, THAT THAT AMBULANCE. UM, HOWEVER, THAT CALL MAY OR MAY NOT TURN INTO, YOU KNOW, IF IT, IF IT IS SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFICULT, THEN THEY'RE GONNA ASSIST THEM FOR A WHILE. USUALLY THE ASSISTANCE THAT THEY NEEDED IS, IN MOST CASES IS THE POINT WHERE THEY GET 'EM LOADED IN THE BACK OF THE AMBULANCE AND THEN THAT FIRETRUCK IS BACK IN SERVICE AND, AND AVAILABLE FOR A FIRE CALL. UM, AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN RESPOND THEN TO A FIRE. SO IF WE HAD EMS PERSONNEL TO, TO, TO A CHASE CAR, UM, AND CERTAINLY THERE'S JURISDICTIONS THAT DO THAT MM-HMM . BUT IT WOULD REQUIRE US TO HIRE MORE FOLKS BECAUSE WE WOULD NEED EMS PEOPLE DEDICATED TO DOING THAT, UH, SO THAT THAT FIRETRUCK CAN STAY IN SERVICE. 'CAUSE IF WE TAKE 'EM OFF OF A FIRETRUCK AND WE PUT 'EM ON SOMETHING ELSE, THEN THEY'RE, WE'RE TAKING THAT FIRETRUCK OUT OF SERVICE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? MM-HMM. NOPE, IT DOESN'T, NOTHING TO ME. BUT ANYWAY, NEVERMIND. I GOT YOU. THANK YOU. BECAUSE ESSENTIALLY YOU SAYING IF, UH, THOSE TWO PEOPLE, INSTEAD OF SENDING THEM ON THAT ENGINE, IF YOU HAD, WE HAD GIVEN ANOTHER VEHICLE LIKE A, ANOTHER EMS VAN AND THOSE FIREFIGHTERS ARE ON THE EMS VAN AND THEN A FIRE STARTS, THEY WOULDN'T ALREADY BE PREPARED TO GO TO, IF I DO HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE FIRE STATION, GET INFO, AND, AND I WISH I HAD THE NUMBERS FOR THE NUMBER OF TIMES RIGHT. THAT WERE ON A CALL YEAH. WHEN WE GET A SECOND CALL. YEAH. CORRECT. AND WE HAVE TO RUN TO THAT NEXT CALL. I LIVE RIGHT THERE, SO I ALL THE TIME. SO IT'S, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S VERY FREQUENTLY THAT WE'RE ON ANOTHER CALL WHEN WE HAVE TO LEAVE THAT CALL AND GO DIRECTLY TO ANOTHER ONE. AND SO IF WE WERE IN A VAN, UH, SO TO SPEAK, WE WOULDN'T HAVE WHAT WE NEED TO FIGHT A FIRE, THEY'D HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE STATION AND THEN BACK TO THE CALL. THAT COULD BE A 10 MINUTE DELAY. OKAY. IN GETTING TO THE FIRE BY THAT TIME, THE HOUSE WOULD BE BURNT DOWN, HONESTLY, IN TODAY'S STANDARD, UH, COUNSELOR DENTON, NO. OH, OKAY. SORRY. I THOUGHT I SAW YOUR LIGHT. GO ON. THAT'S OKAY. I'M SORRY. UM, ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS FOR MR. RUPERT? OKAY. UH, COUNSELOR JOIN. I DID. I GUESS MY QUESTION IS, WE, WE CLEARLY HAVE THE STAFFING SHORTAGE. IS IT, IS IT SOLELY PAY RELATED? UM, NO. I MEAN, I CAN'T SAY IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT PAY RELATED. I CAN TELL YOU THAT IN THE LAST, UH, FEW MONTHS, UH, IT'S GOTTEN SO BAD, WE, WE'VE HAD FOUR PEOPLE IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS LEAVE TO GO BACK TO A BLUE COLLAR JOB THAT THEY [00:55:01] HAD BEFORE THEY CAME HERE. OKAY. UM, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE CHALLENGES THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAS A PLUMBER, LIKE ONE OF 'EM WAS A PLUMBER, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT PLUMBER THAT CHARGES YOU, YOU KNOW, $700 FOR A, FOR A HOT WATER HEATER, UH, HE CAN'T GET ANYBODY THAT CAN DO THE JOB. SO HE CALLS HIS FIREFIGHTER GUY UP THAT USED TO WORK FOR HIM AND OFFERS HIM A, A PAY RAISE THAT IN SOME CASES, SOME OF THESE FOLKS $20,000 MORE THAN, THAN WE'RE OFFERING HIM RIGHT. TO COME BACK. SURE. UM, AND THEN HE'S GONNA PASS THAT COST ON TO WHOEVER HE INSTALLS THAT HOT WATER HEATER TOO. YEAH. WHY WE KNOW EVERYTHING IS GOING UP. YEAH. WE UNFORTUNATELY IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAVE THE CHALLENGE OF NOT BEING ABLE TO PASS THAT, THAT COST ON. AND SO, YEAH. WELL, IT'S JUST, SAY COLONIAL HEIGHTS, ALL OF OUR SURROUNDING JURISDICTIONS, ARE THEY THIS LOW IN STAFFING? AND IS THEIR FIRE DEPARTMENT THIS LOW? UH, SOME PRINCE GEORGE IS STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW. PETERSBURG IS STRUGGLING RIGHT NOW. UM, COLONIAL HEIGHTS, UH, UH, IS, UH, IN GOOD SHAPE, BUT THEY KNOW THAT THEY HAVE, I THINK FOUR PEOPLE THAT HAVE, I'VE ALREADY TOLD 'EM THEY'RE LEAVING TO GO TO HENRICO OR ANOTHER LOCALITY THAT IS HIGHER PAID. OKAY. UM, SO THEY KNOW THAT THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT AT THAT ISSUE YET, BUT THEY'RE LIKE, IT'S ON THE HORIZON. THEY KNOW IT'S COMING. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. MM-HMM . UM, CHIEF RUPERT, I, THE QUESTIONS THAT COUNCILOR JOYNER, UH, WERE ASKING, KIND OF JOG MY MEMORY. I REMEMBER YEARS AGO, CHIEF COHAN, AND IT MAY HAVE BEEN YOU, IT MAY HAVE BEEN CHIEF HUNTER, UM, ALSO PROPOSE SOME OTHER THINGS, UM, THAT WERE HELPFUL. I THINK THERE'S LIKE A SPECIAL MULTIPLIER FOR Y'ALL'S VRS. UM, I, I MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT? I KNOW RETIREMENT SAVINGS IS NOT SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY, YOU KNOW, TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN THEY'RE APPLYING FOR JOBS. UM, BUT I MEAN, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN LOOK AT THAT MIGHT, UM, YEAH, WE, SO, AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE, WE, THE EMS PROGRAM THAT WE STARTED, WE, WE REALLY ANTICIPATED AT THAT TIME THAT PEOPLE WOULD SEE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR THESE PROVIDERS TO RETIRE EARLY AT 50 MM-HMM . UM, AND, AND ALL THAT. UNFORTUNATELY, A LOT OF THE GENERATION TODAY IS A LOT MORE, UM, I DON'T WANNA CALL IT SHORTSIGHTED, BUT THEY, THEY LOOK AT THINGS THE, THE NOW A LOT MORE THAN THEY DO MORE IN THE MOMENT YES. THAN, THAN OUT INTO THE FUTURE. AND SO, UH, WHAT WE THOUGHT WAS GONNA REALLY HELP US AS FAR AS ADVERTISING AND, YOU KNOW, CREATING THE EMS POSITIONS, UM, WHICH IS A GOOD THING, AND I THINK IT CERTAINLY DID HELP US INITIALLY, UH, BUT THE CALL VOLUME THAT WE HAVE, I THINK IS WHAT REALLY TOLD THE STORY FOR US. MM-HMM . UM, AND JUST THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, 12 CALLS A DAY IS AS, AS, UM, COUNCIL MENTIONED IS JUST UNSUSTAINABLE, UM, RIGHT. FOR OUR FOLKS. UM, AND SO, UM, THAT'S WHY WE'RE PURSUING THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE CHANGE IN SCHEDULE. OKAY. ALRIGHT. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? OKAY. SEEING NONE. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. MOVING ON TO OUR THIRD, UH, PRESENTATION FOR THE EVENING, UH, MR. FOLEY WITH THE 2020, UH, AUDIT. GOOD EVENING. UH, MR. MAYOR, UH, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, UH, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME HERE THIS EVENING. UH, AGAIN, MY NAME IS DAVID FOLEY. I'M A PARTNER WITH, UH, ROBINSON FARMER COX ASSOCIATES, AND, UH, WAS A PARTNER IN CHARGE OF THE CITY'S, UH, FISCAL YEAR, UM, AUDIT ENDED, UH, JUNE 30TH, 2020. AND, UH, WE HAVE, UH, COMPLETED, UH, THAT AUDIT. SO HERE TO, UH, PRESENT THE RESULTS OF THAT TO YOU ALL. UM, STARTING IN, UM, EARLY OCTOBER, UM, AS WE WERE WORKING ON FINISHING THE AUDIT, WE STARTED HAVING, UH, WEEKLY, UH, STATUS MEETINGS, UH, WITH THE, UM, UH, CITY MANAGEMENT. SO MET WITH THE, UH, CITY MANAGER, UH, CITY FINANCE DIRECTOR, AND ALSO THE, UH, ASSISTANT, UH, UH, UH, CITY MANAGER. UM, AND DURING THOSE MEETINGS WE WOULD DISCUSS, UH, THE STATUS OF WHERE WE WERE ON THE AUDIT, AS WELL AS, UM, WHATEVER OPEN ITEMS, UH, WE STILL NEEDED, UH, TO BE ABLE TO, TO COMPLETE THE AUDIT. UM, SO THOSE MEETINGS OCCURRED WEEKLY, UM, ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH TILL WHERE WE, UH, GOT THE, UH, LAST PIECE PIECES THAT WE NEEDED TO FINISH THE AUDIT, WHICH WE, UM, DID RECEIVE THE LAST PIECE LAST THURSDAY. UM, SO NOW WE HAVE, UM, ISSUED, UH, A FINAL DRAFT OF THE, UH, REPORT. SO, UM, HERE TO, UH, GO OVER THAT WITH YOU ALL. UM, THIS YOU HAVE IN FRONT OF YOU IS, UH, THE ANNUAL COMPREHENSIVE FINANCIAL REPORT. AND INCLUDED IN THE ANNUAL REPORT ARE THREE DIFFERENT, UH, REPORTS FROM US THAT COMMUNICATE, UH, THE RESULTS OF THE AUDIT. UH, THE FIRST IS, UH, TO, IN THE FRONT OF THE REPORT ON NUMBER PAGE SIX. UM, AND THIS IS OUR INDEPENDENT [01:00:01] AUDITOR'S REPORT. UM, AND THEN THIS REPORT IS WHERE WE STATE, WE DID PERFORM AN AUDIT ON THE, UM, CITY'S FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. UH, THIS TALKS ABOUT, UM, MANAGEMENT'S RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, WHICH MANAGEMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PREPARATION AND FAIR PRESENTATION OF THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, AND TALKS ABOUT, UH, ALL RESPONSIBILITIES AS AUDITORS, WHICH, UH, WE ARE TO ISSUE, UH, AN OPINION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. AND THEN OVER ON THE NEXT PAGE, IT'S TOP OF PAGE SEVEN, IS WHERE WE ISSUE OUR OPINION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. AND THIS YEAR FOR FY, UH, 2020, WITH ALL THE WORK THAT THE, UH, ROBERT BOB GROUP, UH, DID, UH, TO GET THE, UH, CITY'S RECORDS IN ORDER, UM, WE WERE ABLE TO ISSUE AN UNMODIFIED OPINION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS FOR 2020. UM, AN UNMODIFIED OPINION MEANS, UH, THAT THE CITY'S, UH, FINANCIAL STATEMENTS HAVE BEEN PREPARED IN ACCORDANCE WITH GENERALLY ACCEPTED, UM, ACCOUNTING PRINCIPLES. SO A CLEAN OPINION ON THE, THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS THEMSELVES. UM, THE OTHER TWO REPORTS FROM US ARE IN THE BACK OF THE REPORT. UM, SO IF WE GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO PAGE 145, UH, THIS IS OUR REPORT OVER THE CITY'S INTERNAL CONTROLS, OVER ITS FINANCIAL REPORTING. UM, SO WHILE WE WERE ABLE TO ISSUE AN UNMODIFIED OPINION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS THEMSELVES. UM, WE STILL HAVE THE MATERIAL WEAKNESSES, UH, NOTED IN THE CITY'S INTERNAL CONTROLS, UM, OVER AS FINANCIAL REPORTING. SO ALL THE INTERNAL CONTROL ISSUES, UH, YOU KNOW, THAT WERE NOTED IN 18 AND 19, YOU KNOW, THOSE STILL EXISTED, UM, FOR THE CITY, UM, FOR THE 2020 FISCAL YEAR. UM, THE DETAILS OF THOSE ARE FURTHER BACK IN THE REPORT, BUT, YOU KNOW, VERY SIMILAR TO THE FINDINGS THAT WE HAD, UM, THE PREVIOUS TWO YEARS, UM, IN THE THEME OF THESE, THESE MATERIAL WEAKNESSES OR, OR RECONCILIATIONS. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, HAVING MONTHLY RECONCILIATIONS DONE, YOU KNOW, IN A, IN A TIMELY MANNER, YOU KNOW, RECONCILING CASH, UH, RECEIVABLES, UTILITIES, UM, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT SHOULD BE DONE ON A MONTHLY BASIS AND TO ENSURE THE ACCURACY, UM, OF THE CITY'S, UH, FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. UM, SO AGAIN, VERY SIMILAR TO, TO PREVIOUS YEARS. AND THEN THE THIRD, UM, REPORT FROM US IS TWO PAGES OVER. UM, AND THIS IS ON THE, UH, THE FEDERAL COMPLIANCE OPINION, UNIFORM GUIDANCE. UM, SO ANY TIME, UH, UH, LOOK HOW EXPANDS OVER SEVEN 150,000 IN FEDERAL AWARDS, YOU HAVE TO UNDERGO A SINGLE AUDIT. UM, THIS REPORT IS CLEAN. THERE WAS NO FEDERAL AWARD FINDINGS, UM, OR FEDERAL COMPLIANCE ISSUES, UH, NOTED AS PART OF THE AUDIT. UM, SO THOSE ARE THE, THE THREE, UM, REPORTS FROM US. UM, AS NOW AS WE HAVE, UH, FINISHED 2020 AND MOVE INTO, UH, STARTING THE FY 21 AUDIT, UM, WE WILL, I WILL REACH OUT TO THE ROBERT BOB GROUP TO HAVE THEM START PROVIDING US INFORMATION FOR FY 21. UH, IN ADDITION, UM, WE WILL STILL CONTINUE OUR WEEKLY STATUS MEETINGS WITH CITY MANAGEMENT. UM, THOSE SEEM TO BE VERY HELPFUL. SO IT ALLOWS THE CITY TO STAY ABREAST ON WHERE WE ARE WITH THE AUDIT AND WHAT ITEMS, UH, WE STILL NEED. UM, SO AGAIN, NOW THAT 2020 IS COMPLETE, UH, WE RETURN OUR ATTENTION TO, TO 21 TO, UH, GET THAT AUDIT STARTED. BUT THAT'S ALL I HAVE. BUT BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS ANYONE HAVE. OKAY. UH, JOYNER. YEAH. MY QUESTION HAS TO DO WITH, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, THE TIME CONSTRAINTS WERE UNDER AND THAT SO MUCH, YOU KNOW, OUR BOND RATING DEPENDS UPON, UM, YOU KNOW, ON TIME CLEAN AUDIT, THAT KIND OF THING. UM, GIVEN THAT YOU'VE JUST FINISHED 2020, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE YOUR, WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS GIVE IF, IF YOU WERE TO GET EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEEDED, HOW, WHAT, WHAT CAN WE EXPECT THE AVERAGE TURNAROUND TIME FOR TO BE ONE OF OUR ANNUAL AUDITS FROM THIS POINT FORWARD? SO I, I THINK AS, AS CONTINGENT UPON, YOU KNOW, GETTING THE INFORMATION SURE. THAT WE NEED, OF COURSE, UM, YOU KNOW, TYPICAL TURNAROUND 60 DAYS. OKAY. UM, AND, YOU KNOW, GETTING INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO GET THE INFORMATION, THEN WE HAVE TO GO THROUGH IT AND LOOK AT IT. YEAH. AND THEN [01:05:01] A LOT OF TIMES THAT INVOLVES, YOU KNOW, HEY, WE NEED QUESTIONS OR NEED FURTHER INFORMATION. BUT ASSUMING ALL THAT HAPPENS, YOU KNOW, QUICKLY ABOUT 60 DAYS, WE'RE LOOKING ABOUT 60 DAYS. OKAY. OKAY. UH, UH, COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY, SO I, I'M GONNA PICK IT BACK AND BACK OFF OF WHAT SHE SAID. WHAT IS, WHAT TAKES SO LONG? WHAT DO YOU USUALLY HAPPENS TO RESPONSE WHEN YOU, UH, WHEN YOU'RE REQUESTING FOR THE INFORMATION? SO, I MEAN, YOU SAID 60 DAY TURNAROUND IS OF COURSE MUCH QUICKER THAN HAS BEEN. WHAT, WHAT HAS BEEN HOLD UP? UM, UH, SO AGAIN, SIX, SO 60 DAYS, ONE IS THAT WE RECEIVE, YOU KNOW, MOST ALL THE INFORMATION. SO, YOU KNOW, AND FOR THE PREVIOUS AUDITS, WE RECEIVED SOME INFORMATION SO WE COULD GET, GET STARTED ON, BUT IT WASN'T EVERYTHING. UM, AND THEN ONCE YOU GET THE COMPLETE SET OF INFORMATION, I MEAN, THEN THERE'S, YOU KNOW, IT, IT TAKES TIME TO GET OUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED AND, UM, YOU KNOW, GET, DO YOU REPORT IT BACK OUT TO COUNSEL TO LET US KNOW THE INFORMATION THAT YOU'RE REQUESTING? WHERE IS BEING HELD, HELD UP FROM PARTICULARLY? DO WE OR WILL WE? YES. WILL YOU WILL? YES, WE WILL. AND, AND THAT WAS, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK WITH THESE MONTH OR WEEKLY MEETINGS WITH CITY MANAGEMENT, UM, WE'RE ABLE TO UPDATE THE CITY ON, OKAY, THIS IS WHERE WE'RE AT, THIS IS WHAT WE'VE GOTTEN, THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE'VE GOTTEN BACK, OR THIS IS THE QUESTIONS WE'VE GIVEN BACK AND THIS IS THE STUFF WE'RE STILL WAITING ON. SO, SO WE WOULD BE REPORTING, YOU KNOW, WEEKLY. SO IS THAT USUALLY A DEVELOPMENT OF REQUEST OVER THE PERIOD OF TIME? OR ARE YOU COMING IN AT THE BEGINNING AND SAYING, THIS IS WHAT WE NEED? SO, FROM THE BEGINNING, ARE YOU ASKING, SO, SO AT THE, YES. AT THE BEGINNING OF THE AUDIT, WE SEND OUT A LIST AND SAY, THIS IS ALL THE INFORMATION, UM, THAT WE NEED. NOW THAT CAN COME BACK IN PHASES. WE CAN GET PIECES OF IT HERE A MONTH LATER, WE GET, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER SET OF INFORMATION. TWO MONTHS LATER WE MAY GET ANOTHER SET OF INFORMATION. UM, SO IT JUST DEPENDS ON THE, THE TIME AND TIMING OF THE INFORMATION. BUT WE DO, WE DO REQUEST THIS AS A LIST OF EVERYTHING THAT WE NEED AND, YOU KNOW, AHEAD OF TIME. AND THEN AS WE START GETTING THAT, AGAIN, WE WORK THROUGH THAT INFORMATION, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES IT'S COMPLETE, SOMETIMES IT'S NOT. AND THEN WE WILL, YOU KNOW, REACH BACK OUT IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS OR FIND THAT WE NEED SOMETHING ELSE. I'M MOST CONCERNED. AND SEE, LIKE IF THAT INFORMATION THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO RECEIVE FROM CITY OR DOES THIS ENTAIL, I MEAN, DOES THIS ENTAIL LIKE THE TREASURER'S OFFICE OR IS THIS SOMETHING THAT'S JUST, OR IS IT SPLIT? IT, IT'S, I MEAN, WE, WE GET INFORMATION FROM ALL OVER. SO IT'S TREASURER'S OFFICE, IT'S FINANCE, IT'S SOCIAL SERVICES, IT'S CSA, IT'S SCHOOL BOARD. UM, WE GET IT FROM ALL OVER. OKAY. THANK YOU SO MUCH. OKAY. UH, COUNCILOR PELLUM, MYSELF AND THEN VICE MAYOR GORDON. OH, YOU ARE CITY MANAGER. CAN YOU ANSWER, CAN I INTERJECT FOR ONE SECOND? OH, DID YOU SAY MY NAME FIRST? I'M SORRY. DO, DO YOU MIND IF I INTERJECT FOR ONE SECOND? MM-HMM . WE'RE RUNNING UP ON TIME. I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO EXTEND THE MEETING. OKAY. THERE'S A MOTION TO EXTEND THE MEETING. SECOND, IS IT TO A CERTAIN TIME OR IVAN THE AGENDA. ALRIGHT. THERE'S A MOTION ON THE FLOOR TO EXTEND THE MEETING UNTIL WE FINISH THE AGENDA. MOTION HAS BEEN MADE BY VICE MAYOR GORE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILLOR PELLUM. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION SEEING NO LIGHTS FOR ROLL CALL, PLEASE? COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR. PARDON? NO. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILLOR PELLUM? YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILLOR JOYNER. NO. MOTION PASSES. FIVE TO TWO. OKAY. ME? YEAH. OKAY, I'M CONFUSED. UM, WE KNEW OUR MATERIAL WEAKNESSES COMING INTO OUR ORDER FOR MR. BOB. EVERYONE KNEW THE WEAKNESSES. WE PAID HIM TO GET THE WE WEAKNESSES STRAIGHT. I THOUGHT SO. THEY CORRECT, THEY DID THE WEAKNESSES. AND AS THEY PLEASED THE WEAKNESSES, YOU TELL ME THEY DIDN'T GIVE YOU THE INFORMATION. WELL, WELL, NO. SO WE, SO THE, THEY WERE ABLE TO GIVE US THE STUFF. UH, THEY WENT [01:10:01] BACK THROUGH THE RECORDS AND WERE ABLE TO PROVIDE US SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT WHAT WAS IN THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. OKAY. SO THAT WAS A CHANGE BETWEEN 20 AND 19. SO THE, THE OPINION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS WAS, IT WAS A DISCLAIMER FOR 19 2 20. I'M TALKING ABOUT NO, FOR 19 AND 20 AND EIGHT AND 18. OKAY. AND 20, THE OPINION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS IS UNMODIFIED, BUT THAT'S JUST ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. SO THAT MEANS THAT THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS HAVE BEEN PREPARED MATERIALLY. CORRECT. BUT THROUGH 2020, THE ROB LAW GROUP DIDN'T EVEN COME IN UNTIL, UH, WHAT, ALL SEPTEMBER OR OCTOBER OF 23. SO 2020 ALREADY HAPPENED MM-HMM . SO FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2020, ALL THESE INTERNAL CONTROL ISSUES WERE IN PLACE. I MEAN, YOU, IT WAS, I MEAN, IT WAS, THEY THEY COULDN'T, BUT THEY PAID SAYING WHEN THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO COME IN AND CORRECT THOSE THINGS. RIGHT. BUT THEY CAN'T GO BACK AND CORRECT. THEY CAN'T GO BACK AND, AND SAY, OKAY, YOU HAD MONTHLY REC, YOU DID TIMELY MONTHLY RECONCILE. SO HOW DO YOU GET PAST THAT THEN? I'M SAYING YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST. SO HOW DO YOU GET PAST 21 AND 22 THEN? WELL, I MEAN, 21 AND 22 ARE GONNA HAVE TOO. YOU'RE GONNA HAVE MATERIAL WEAKNESSES TOO, BECAUSE EXACTLY. SO WE WON'T HAVE UN SO, BUT YOU HOPEFULLY WE'LL BE ABLE TO, IF, IF, IF 21 AND 22 FOLLOW A SUIT, WE'LL BE ABLE TO AT LEAST HAVE, UM, UNMODIFIED OPINION ON THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. MM-HMM . SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT? WHAT, WHAT DO THEY HAVE TO GIVE YOU TO GET ANOTHER UNMODIFIED OPINION? I MEAN, THEY, THEY HAVE TO PROVIDE SO THAT THEY DOING IT CURRENTLY. WELL, HOW DO WE GET RID OF THE MATERIAL WEAKNESSES? WE CAN'T GET RID OF THE WEAKNESSES. 'CAUSE YOU'VE ALREADY IDENTIFIED I I, I GOT THAT RIGHT. YEAH. SO HOW DO YOU, YEAH. SO HOW DO WE GET PAST NOT CORRECTING THE PAST ? THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW. UM, YOU SAY YOU'VE GOTTA GET INFORMATION FROM FINANCE, TREASURER, SOCIAL SERVICES. THE ONLY REASON THE WAY THEY CAN GIVE YOU SOMETHING IS WHAT THEY DOING CURRENTLY TO SAY THAT WE'VE CHANGED OUR WEAKNESSES, RIGHT. IN THIS WELL, WHAT THEY CAN DO IS THEY CAN GO BACK AND RECREATE AND RECREATE RECONCILIATIONS AND, AND BE ABLE TO PROVIDE THE SUPPORT NEEDED TO SUBSTANTIATE THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. SO THAT'S ONE THING, RIGHT? ONE, YOU GOTTA BE ABLE TO FINANCIAL, UH, SUBSTANTIATE THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. OKAY. AND IF THEY CAN'T FIND IT, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S PART ONE. PART TWO IS WITH THE INTERNAL CONTROL PROCESSES AND THAT YOU CAN'T, YOU CAN'T GO BACK. RIGHT. YOU, IT IS WHAT IT IS. GOTTA THAT YOU'RE DOING IT NOW, RIGHT? RIGHT NOW, YEAH. SO IT, YOU KNOW, AND I KNOW THEY'RE WORKING WITH CITY STAFF TO IMPLEMENT THESE POLICIES AND PROCEDURES. SO EVENTUALLY MAYBE EVERYTHING CAN BE CLEAN. SO, BUT YOU CAN'T GO BACK AND CHANGE YEAH, DEFINITELY NOW, BUT YOU CAN GO BACK AND GO THROUGH RECORDS AND PERFORM RECONCILIATIONS AND SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T PREPARE THESE RECONCILIATIONS TIMELY, YOU KNOW? RIGHT. BUT WE CAN GO BACK AND RECREATE IT AND SAY, OKAY, THIS IS HOW WE GET TO WHAT'S IN THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS. I MEAN, IT'S, I MEAN, IT'S TWO DIFFERENT, IT'S TWO DIFFERENT, IT'S TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. I MEAN, THERE'S, YOU HAVE THE, THE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS THAT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT, BUT THEN THERE'S THE UNDERLYING CONTROLS THAT SHOULD BE IN PLACE ON A DAILY, MONTHLY BASIS. RIGHT. AND THAT'S WHEN WE'RE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INTERNAL CONTROLS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE DAILY MONTHLY ACTIVITIES. OPERATIONS. YEAH. RIGHT. YOUR, YOUR OPERATIONS. SO BECAUSE WE'RE SO FAR BACK, I MEAN, WHILE WE CAN GET TO A UNMODIFIED OPINION WITH ALL THE WORK THAT THEY DID TO GO BACK AND REDO, BASICALLY REDO THE FINANCIALS, THAT ALLOWED YOU TO GET AN UNMODIFIED OPINION ON THE FINANCIALS. BUT IT DIDN'T CHANGE HISTORY. SO, NO, OF COURSE NOT. I, SO, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, MY, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THEY CAN PROVIDE THE SAME TYPE OF INFORMATION, THEN WE CAN HAVE A, YOU KNOW, FOR 21 AND 22, THAT AND 23 COULD HAVE AN UNMODIFIED OPINION. BUT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE, I MEAN, THE MATERIAL WEAKNESSES ARE STILL GONNA BE THERE. SO THEY HAVEN'T DONE 21 AND 22. AND SO WHO'S GONNA DO THAT? LOOK? SO I THINK, WELL, I DON'T WANT TO SPEAK FOR THEM, BUT I, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE, THEY'VE WORKED THROUGH THE, SO THEY'RE READY. WHO IS THEY? MR. BOB. THE ROBERT BOB BUREAU. OKAY. SO YOU WAITING FOR ROBERT BOB TO GIVE YOU THIS INFORMATION TO SHOW THAT THEY AT LEAST HAVE FOUND THE RECORDS? YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THEY, TO SUBSTANTIATE MM-HMM . SO, SO AS WE GET READY TO START THE 21 AUDIT, WE WILL REACH OUT TO THEM AND SAY, OKAY, WE'RE READY TO PROCEED WITH 21. THIS IS THE LIST OF INFORMATION THAT WE NEED. THEY'RE GONNA UPLOAD ALL THAT TO US. RIGHT. AND THEN WE GET OKAY, THEN WE GET STARTED. SO WE WAITING ON BOB AND [01:15:01] YOU. THIS IS RIDICULOUS. I THEY WERE DOING THAT AS THEY WERE DOING THE ORDINANCE. WELL, WELL, WELL, I DO THINK THEY ARE, THEY ARE DOING THAT. WE'RE JUST, WE HAD TO GET, WE HAD TO GET 20 DONE FIRST BEFORE WE CAN MOVE TO 21. SO I THINK THEY'RE BEING ABLE TO GET IT TO US SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I'VE SEEN THE STATUS OF ANY OF IT FOR 21, BUT IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT'S READY TO GO AND READY TO BE UPLOADED TO US. OKAY. SO WE CAN GET STARTED NOW. THE TWENTIES DONE, WE CAN GET STARTED ON. SO YOU DIDN'T SPEAK TO HIM BEFORE YOU CAME TO SEE WHEN HE WAS GONNA UPLOAD IT? YOU DIDN'T SPEAK TO THE BARB GROUP TO SEE WHEN THEY ACTUALLY GONNA UPLOAD THIS INFORMATION BEFORE YOU CAME TONIGHT? I, I HAVE NOT. I HAVE NOT SPOKEN TO HIM, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN CITY MANAGER. DO YOU KNOW WHEN THEY GONNA UPLOAD THIS MAGICAL INFORMATION? THEY HAVE SOME, THE MR. FOLEY HAS SOME ITEMS TO COMPLETE FOR THIS TO BE READY, BE READY TO BE FINALIZED. THIS IS A DRAFT. AND SO THE ANTICIPATION ORDER, THERE'S A DRAFT FOR 20, A DRAFT FOR 20. OH, OKAY. THEY HAVE SOME INTERNAL PROCESSES TO COMPLETE TO WRAP UP. SO THE EXPECTATION IS FOR 21 TO BE UPLOADED IN, STARTED IN JANUARY. RIGHT. SO NOW THAT WE'RE DONE WITH 20, WE WILL REACH OUT TO THE ROBERT BOB GROUP, THEY WILL UPLOAD THE STUFF, AND THEN STARTING THE 1ST OF JANUARY, WE'LL DIVE. SO YOU GIVE THE COUNCIL A MONTHLY UPDATE WHEN Y'ALL, WHERE Y ARE I SUBMITTED WEEKLY ON FRIDAYS. ON ON FRIDAY. OKAY. GET IT. SO, SO 21ST OF JANUARY. DO THEY HAVE ESTIMATED DATES FOR THE, FOR THE FATHER? YOU, WE MIGHT, WE MAY BE ABLE TO DEVELOP A SCHEDULE NOW THAT WE HAVE 20 OUT THE DOOR, BECAUSE 20 WILL ROLL OVER TO 21. UH, A LOT OF THE MATERIAL WILL, AND SO WE EXPECT IT TO GO FASTER. MM-HMM . RIGHT? 'CAUSE AS THEY WERE GOING THROUGH THEIR WORK, NOT ONLY WERE THEY DOING 20, THEY WERE DOING 21, 22, 23 MM-HMM . AND SO I THINK THEY PROBABLY HAVE ALL THAT STUFF READY FOR TO GIVE US. BUT INSTEAD OF GIVING US FOUR YEARS AT A TIME, YOU KNOW, WE GOTTA TAKE IT A YEAR TO ONE YEAR AT A TIME. SO FINISH 20. NOW I'M GONNA ASK FOR 21 STUFF AND THEY'RE GONNA UPLOAD 21 STUFF. AND THEN AS SOON AS WE FINISH 21, I'M GONNA SAY, HEY, CAN YOU UPLOAD 22 STUFF FOR US? AND THEN AGAIN, UPLOAD 22. WHO'S GONNA BE PREPARING THAT? BECAUSE ROB GONNA BE GONE. SO WHO, WHO GONNA BE DOING THAT? STAFF? WELL, IT'S, IT, IT'S RIGHT THERE. IT'S ALREADY A, THE WORK THAT THEY'VE DONE, IT'S ALREADY DONE, IS ALREADY THERE. DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. JUST CONFIRM AND MAKE SURE WE WON'T PAY ANYMORE. OH, WE, WE PAY YOU YOUR DUES YET? NOT YET. OKAY. OKAY. COUNCILOR PEL, ARE YOU FINISHED? YES. OKAY. UM, MR. FOLEY, UM, I HAD JUST HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING THAT 60 DAYS IS GONNA HIT AND STICK, UM, JUST FROM SEEING WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND TRANSPIRED HERE IN 2020. AND I KNOW THAT THERE WERE ISSUES WITH IT, BUT IT WAS MULTIPLE, MULTIPLE MONTHS AND EXTENSIONS. UM, DO WE NEED TO REQUEST FROM YOUR FIRM, LIKE AN ADDITIONAL TEAM TO HELP EXPEDITE THIS WORK? I MEAN, I, I JUST, I, I WANT US TO HIT THE 60 DAYS, BUT JUST IF 2020 WAS JUST ANY INDICATION FOR FUTURE, EVEN IF IT'S JUST HALF OF WHAT IT'S TAKEN FOR 2020, WE STILL AREN'T GONNA HIT THE, UM, THE 60 DAYS. UM, I MEAN, DO YOU, DO YOU NEED, DO WE NEED EXTRA TEAMS FOR OUR AUDITS? N NO, I THINK WE HAVE THE STAFF AVAILABLE TO DO IT, UM, ON THIS, HUH? OH, I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD. YEAH, SO I, I THINK WE HAVE THE STAFF TO DO IT. NOW, AGAIN, IF WE GET, IF WE, THE 60 DAYS IS DO WE HAVE, ARE WE GETTING, YOU KNOW, SUFFICIENT INFORMATION TO GET GO? SO IF WE GET, IF WE GET SOME INFORMATION IN FEBRUARY, BUT WE DON'T GET ADJUSTED TRIAL BALANCES TILL AUGUST. I MEAN, YOU'RE, YOU'RE REALLY, AND WHILE YOU CAN DO SOME STUFF IN FEBRUARY WITH THE INFORMATION YOU GOT, THE AUDIT REALLY STARTS ONCE YOU GET THE SET OF BOOKS. UM, SO, BUT WHEN YOU GET, WHEN YOU ASK FOR SOMETHING, UM, WHAT I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IS TO, YOU KNOW, CC THE ENTIRE CITY COUNCIL ON THE REQUEST. THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST SAYING. AND IN ADDITION TO THAT, THE SCHOOL FINANCE DIRECTOR, THE SCHOOL BOARD, I MEAN, WE ALL NEED TO KNOW BECAUSE I MEAN, WE HAVE GOT TO GET THESE THINGS DONE AND, YOU KNOW, IT JUST, IT'S, IT'S A SHAME YET BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, THE ROBERT BOB GROUP AND THIS THAT WE'RE, YOU'RE STILL CONTINUING TO PUSH ON. AND [01:20:01] I KNOW COUNSELOR DENTON, UM, YOU KNOW, WAS CALLED ME EARLY TODAY. AND, YOU KNOW, HER BIGGEST HOPE WAS THAT BY THE TIME SHE LEFT CITY COUNCIL, THAT A LOT OF THIS WAS GONNA BE DONE AND CLEANED UP. AND I THINK SAME THING WITH, UH, WITH VICE MAYOR GORE AND COUNCILOR PELLUM, UM, YOU MADE A COMMENT THAT YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, IT WON'T START UNTIL JANUARY ONE, SO IF WE GIVE YOU ALL THE STUFF TOMORROW, I MEAN, THAT'S STILL THREE WEEKS LEFT IN THIS YEAR. I MEAN, COULD YOU GUYS NOT START NOW? UM, I MEAN, WE COULD, WE PROBABLY COULDN'T START TOMORROW. UM, BUT WE COULD MAYBE START IN LIKE A COUPLE WEEKS. I MEAN, WE HAVE SOMETHING ON THE SCHEDULE FOR NEXT WEEK, BUT I MEAN, WE'VE GOT JANUARY SLOTTED TO FOCUS ON THE CITY OF HOPEWELL BECAUSE I MEAN, IF YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A 60 DAY TURNAROUND AND THEN WE'VE GOT THREE WEEKS, I MEAN, IT'S ONE THIRD OF THAT TIMEFRAME, THAT'S 21 DAYS. I WOULD JUST HATE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, A DELAY LIKE THAT IF WE COULD START WORKING ON IT MORE EXPEDITIOUSLY. THANK YOU. UH, WELL I CAN, I CAN REQUEST THAT WE GET THE 21 INFORMATION UPLOADED AND UM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN, I CAN FIND SOME, YOU KNOW, STAFF TO, TO START WORKING ON IT. BUT I MEAN, WE DO HAVE OTHER OBLIGATIONS THAT WE'RE HAVING TO, TO DO, BUT WE CAN CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, GET, GET 21 STARTED. OKAY. UH, VICE MAYOR GORE AND THEN COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. THANK YOU. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, UM, THERE'S A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH. I WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE. I WANNA MAKE SURE I'M ARTICULATING THIS CORRECTLY FOR US AS WELL. PART OF THE ISSUE THAT, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, I WAS TEAM GET RID OF YOUR FIRM A WHILE AGO WHEN YOU CAME HERE. AND I WAS LIKE, WHAT'S THE PROBLEM? AND THAT IS WHEN YOU ARTICULATED THAT YOU HAD NOT RECEIVED EVERYTHING AS WE GO COUNT, UH, EVEN THOUGH COUNSEL THOUGHT THAT'S WHAT HAD OCCURRED, AND IT WASN'T TO YOUR PRESENCE THAT WE RE RELA REALIZED THAT WASN'T THE CASE, THAT WAS LATE IN THE GAME. THAT WAS ONLY ABOUT LIKE MAYBE TWO MONTHS AGO IF, IF THAT MAYBE A MONTH AGO WHEN WE RECEIVED CLARIFICATION THAT YOU DID NOT RECEIVE ALL THE FINANCIAL DOCUMENTS TO BE ABLE TO DO THE AUDIT. SO, QUITE FRANKLY, UM, IN MY OPINION, THE TIMEFRAME FROM WHEN YOU PRESENTED TO US AND GAVE THAT CLARIFICATION TO NOW HAS ACTUALLY BEEN PRETTY QUICK. UM, SO I DO WANNA SAY THAT FOR THE RECORD, AFTER YOU GAVE THAT CLARIFICATION, YOU GUYS DID TURN IT AROUND VERY SWIFTLY. SO THE KEY HERE IS, UM, IT REALLY WASN'T MADE APPARENT TO US THAT YOU HAD NOT RECEIVED THE DOCUMENTS. UM, SO THAT GOES BACK TO COMMUNICATION TO COUNSEL THAT THERE'S BEEN SOME DELAYS THERE BECAUSE AGAIN, WE THOUGHT THE ROB BOB GROUP AND THEIR PARTNERS HAD PROVIDED YOU EVERYTHING. UM, AT THAT MEETING WE DID SAY THAT WE DID NOT WANT YOU TO RECEIVE ALL DOCUMENTS BECAUSE IT COULD BE CONFUSING. AND WE SAID FOR THEM TO PUT IT INTO A FOLDER AND THAT WHEN YOU ARE AVAILABLE OR READY TO, THEN YOU WILL PULL THE NEXT SET OF FINANCIALS TO START THE NEXT YEAR'S AUDIT. BECAUSE UP UNTIL THEN THEY COULD STILL MAKE, YOU COULD STILL BE REQUESTING CHANGES AND THE DATA THAT YOU WOULD HAVE WOULD BE OUTDATED. CORRECT? CORRECT. YEAH. SO THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE YET YEAH, THAT'S WHY WE HAVEN'T REQUESTED THE 21 STUFF YET TILL WE WERE DONE WITH 20. CORRECT. JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT'S ON THE SAME PAGE. AND THEN ALSO, IF I UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THE CITIZENS ARE UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY. THE ISSUES HERE IS GOING BACK TO 2016, UM, TRULY 2016, UH, THAT'S WHEN WE STARTED GETTING AUDIT REPORTS THAT SAID THAT WE WERE, THEY WERE UNABLE TO RENDER AN AUDIT OPINION 'CAUSE THEY COULDN'T PRODUCE THE FINANCIAL RECORDS. UM, THEN WE HAD LANCE SWIFT COME IN, THEN WE HAD OTHER GROUPS COME IN AND IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE SAME CYCLE, NOT BEING ABLE TO PRODUCE THE FINANCIAL RECORDS TO BE AUDITED. UM, SO FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, ROBERT BOBBY, WHEN HE CAME IN, THEY WERE ABLE TO AGAIN, REDO ANOTHER PIER'S AUDIT TO PRODUCE THE FINANCIAL RECORDS, WHICH HAS BEEN MOST OF THIS TIME BECAUSE THEY HAD TO CREATE RECORDS THAT WERE NON-EXISTENT AND ALSO PRODUCE THOSE STATEMENTS TO BE AUDITED. AND THEN NOW THAT THEY HAVE THOSE PRODUCED, THEY CAN USE THAT TEMPLATE FOR NEXT YEARS. AND THAT'S WHY YOU'RE SAYING DIDN'T WANNA REQUEST THEM IN ADVANCE. SO THEIR, JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THAT IS WHY THE AUDIT DOESN'T GO INTO THE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, SO THAT'S THE, THE WIN HERE IS THAT NOW WE HAVE FINANCIAL STATEMENTS THAT A FIRM CAN BE ABLE TO AUDIT. RIGHT. WITHOUT THAT WE WOULDN'T GET AN AUDIT DONE AT ALL. RIGHT. SO CLEARLY UP UNTIL 23 WE'RE GONNA HAVE MATERIAL WEAKNESSES BECAUSE AGAIN, WE CAN'T CHANGE THE PAST. HOWEVER, MOVING FORWARD, THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT UNDER DIRECTOR OF MS, DIRECTOR JORDAN, WE'LL BE ABLE TO SUBMIT THOSE QUICKLY BECAUSE ROBERT BOB GROUP HAS RATED THE GROUNDWORK IN GETTING EVERYTHING PREPARED MINUS WHAT YOU WILL ASK 'EM TO ADJUST MOVING FORWARD. CORRECT. RIGHT. CORRECT. SO THAT WILL PROVIDE AN EXPEDITED PROCESS TO BE ABLE TO REVIEW THOSE BECAUSE YOU KNOW, THE WEAKNESSES ARE NOT GONNA BE ADJUSTED. WE'RE JUST GOING OFF OF FINANCIALS. CORRECT. WHICH IS WHY YOU FEEL LIKE THE TIMELINE IS REASONABLE, RIGHT? YES. YEP. IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT. . RIGHT. AND AGAIN, IT'S, [01:25:01] YOU KNOW, WE'VE NOW GONE THROUGH ONE AUDIT WITH THE ROBERT BOB GROUP PRODUCING INFORMATION. SO NOW WE'RE USED TO THEIR STUFF. THEY'RE USED TO WHAT WE WANT. SO THAT WILL ALSO MM-HMM . OKAY. EXPEDITE THE PROCESS. IT'S BE FAIR. YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING? BECAUSE AT FIRST I WAS TEAM LET THEM GO, BUT AFTER YOU GAVE US CLARIFICATION, IT MAKES SENSE. AND I JUST WANNA ALSO STATE FOR THE RECORD, DR. ME AND COUNSEL CAN HOPEFULLY SUPPORT ME ON THIS. IF THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT IS STILL WAITING FOR ANY OUTSTANDING DOCUMENTS, LIKE THE SOPS AND ANY OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT HAVE NOT RECEIVED THE WORK PRODUCT FROM ROBERT BOB GROUP, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL COPYING COUNSEL REQUESTING THAT INFORMATION. UM, IF YOU CAN ASK THE FINANCE DIRECTOR AND WHOEVER ELSE NEEDS IS STILL WAITING FOR DOCUMENTS PRIOR, PRIOR, DO THAT PLEASE. BEFORE WE LEAVE FOR THE HOLIDAY, UM, GET A SUMMARY OF WHAT'S OUTSTANDING. 'CAUSE FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, WHEN I'VE INQUIRED ABOUT STUFF, THERE'S STILL OUTSTANDING DELIVERABLES THAT WE HAVE ESSENTIALLY PAID FOR A CONTRACT THAT WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED YET. SO, UM, WHATEVER'S IMPEDING THEM TO BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY IMPLEMENT THE WORK PRODUCT, UM, AND APPLY THE SOPS THAT WERE DEVELOPED, THAT NEEDS TO BE, UM, PROVIDED TO THE CITY, UM, AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO THAT? BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S SOME OBJECTION. OKAY. WE'RE GOOD TO GO THERE. ALRIGHT. YOU HAVE A HAVE HOLIDAY. THANK YOU. YOU TOO. THANK YOU. THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH. WELL, I, COUNCIL HOLLOW, DID YOU STILL HAVE ANYTHING THAT YOU WANTED TO SAY? UH, NO. I, THAT'S WHEN I WAS TRYING TO OH, OKAY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU MR. FOLEY. THANK YOU. ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO, UH, COMMUNICATIONS FROM CITIZENS. UH, MADAM CLERK, DO YOU MIND READING THE, UH, STATEMENT, A COMMUNICATION FROM CITIZENS? THE PERIOD LIMITED IN TOTAL TO 30 MINUTES IS PART OF THE ORDER OF BUSINESS AT EACH REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING, ALL PERSONS ADDRESSING THE COUNCIL SHALL, SHALL APPROACH THE MICROPHONE, GIVE THEIR NAME, AND IF THEY RESIDE AND HOPE WELL THE AWARD NUMBER AND LIMIT COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES, NO ONE IS PERMITTED TO SPEAK ON ANY ITEM SCHEDULED FOR CONSIDERATION ON THE REGULAR AGENDA OF THE MEETING. ALL REMARKS SHALL BE ADDRESSED TO THE COUNCIL AS A BODY, ANY QUESTIONS MUST BE ASKED THROUGH THE PRESIDING OFFICER. ANY PERSON WHO MAKES PERSONAL IMPER ABUSIVE OR SLANDEROUS STATEMENTS OR INCITE DISORDERLY CONDUCT AND COUNCIL CHAMBERS MAY BE BARRED BY THE MAYOR FROM A FURTHER AUDIENCE BEFORE COUNSEL AND REMOVE SUBJECT TO APPEAL TO A MAJORITY OF COUNSEL. C RULES 4 0 5 AND 4 0 6. OKAY. UH, I DON'T HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP FOR THIS EVENING. IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? NO. OKAY. [PUBLIC HEARING] MOVING ON TO, UH, PUBLIC HEARINGS. MADAM CLERK, DO YOU MIND READING THE STATEMENT ALL PERSONS ADDRESSING THE COUNCIL SHALL STEP TO THE MICROPHONE, GIVE THEIR NAME, AND IF THEY RESIDE IN, HOPEWELL THEIR WARD NUMBER AND LIMIT COMMENTS TO THREE MINUTES. NO ONE MAY ADDRESS THE COUNCIL MORE THAN ONCE PER MEETING, UNLESS GRANTED PERMISSION BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER. SPEAKERS ADDRESS THE COUNCIL AS A BODY, NOT INDIVIDUAL COUNSELORS. QUESTIONS ARE ASKED OF COUNSELORS AND STAFF THROUGH THE PRESIDING OFFICER. ANY PERSON WHO MAKES PERSONAL IMPER ABUSIVE AND SLANDEROUS STATEMENTS OR INSIGHTS. DISORDERLY CONDUCT IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER MAY BE REPRIMANDED BY THE PRESIDING OFFICER AND REMOVED FROM THE MEETING UPON A MAJORITY VOTES OF COUNSELORS PRESENT, EXCLUDING ANY COUNSELOR WHO IS THE SUBJECT OF THE MOTION? C RULES 4 0 5 AND 4 0 6. OKAY. OUR FIRST PUBLIC HEARING TONIGHT IS THE STORM WATER FEE. SECOND READING BY MR. CAMPBELL. GOOD EVENING, MR. MAYOR, VICE PER GORE. COUNCIL MEMBERS, UH, BACK IN FRONT OF YOU HERE AGAIN TO ADDRESS THIS STORMWATER FEE, UH, STUDY. LET'S SEE HERE. PARDON ME JUST ONE MOMENT. SO WHILE THIS IS LOADING, I'LL JUST, UH, BASICALLY GO, UH, AND, AND GIVE YOU, GIVE YOU A HEADS UP ON WHAT WE'RE GONNA DO TODAY. UM, GIVEN THE, THE QUESTIONS, THE DEPTH OF THIS TOPIC, UH, THE AMOUNT OF, OF WORK THAT WAS PUT INTO THIS STUDY, UM, I FELT THAT IT WAS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF COUNSEL AND IN THE INTEREST OF THE CITY TO BE ABLE TO CONVEY THE, THE INFORMATION REQUIRED AND REQUESTED BY EACH ONE OF YOU TO GO TO THE SOURCE TO GO TO MY SUBJECT MATTER EXPERTS. UH, I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO HAVE, UH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR MIKE CROCKER GIVE YOU THIS PRESENTATION. UM, AND HE HAS EVERY BIT OF INFORMATION HOPEFULLY THAT, THAT YOU [01:30:01] WOULD NEED, UH, FOR THIS. AND WE'LL BE ASKING FOR ACTION TONIGHT AS WELL AS PUBLIC HEARING. SO NOW THAT I'VE GOT THIS PULLED UP, I'LL PULL IT OVER TO, UH, DEPUTY DIRECTOR CROCKER. THANKS, MR. CAMPBELL. MR. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, UM, A LITTLE BIT OF BACKGROUND. UM, SO THE CITY'S STORMWATER MANAGEMENT PROGRAM CURRENTLY HAS A $4 MONTHLY FEE. IT'S LARGELY BEEN IN EXISTENCE SINCE 2015. UM, GREAT PLACE TO START. HOPEWELL WAS IN THE SAME SITUATION AS A LOT OF OTHER REGULATED LOCALITIES, UM, IN IMPLEMENTING THAT FEE, UM, WITH TIME AND THAT, AGAIN, IT'S A GREAT PLACE TO START. WE WORKED WITH CDM SMITH, UM, TO EVALUATE THE UTILITY, UM, ULTIMATELY TO DETERMINE WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE WITHIN THE CITY OF HOPEWELL. UH, OCTOBER 22ND, UH, COUNCIL RECEIVED A PRESENTATION FROM CDM SMITH. UM, AGAIN, BASED ON THESE FINDINGS, UM, OUR CURRENT UTILITY RATE STRUCTURE IS INADEQUATE TO SUPPORT CITY NEEDS. AND I WANT TO POINT TO SOME SPECIFIC PROGRAM AREAS THAT ARE, ARE DEFICIENT. UM, AND I BELIEVE THIS MAY ADDRESS SOME OF YOUR CONCERNS. COUNCILOR TRU, YOU'D ASKED ABOUT BUDGET SPECIFICS. MM-HMM . UM, WHERE WE STAND CURRENTLY, SO THE STORMWATER UTILITY GENERATES ABOUT $905,000 CURRENTLY. UM, THAT'S A, THAT'S A MINIMUM STANDARD, RIGHT? THAT COVERS, UH, SOME STAFFING, COMPONENT MAINTENANCE VEHICLES OFFICE LEASE. IT REALLY DOESN'T TOUCH MUCH IN REGULATORY COMPLIANCE AND CAPITAL INVESTMENT. UM, SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON TONIGHT. UH, HERE YOU GO, IS OUR EXISTING STORM WATER UTILITY. UH, IT'S PRETTY FLAT. AND BY FLAT I MEAN SHORT OF, UM, STAFF RAISES, FUEL INCREASES. OUR BUDGET STAYS THE SAME EVERY YEAR. AND YOU'LL NOTICE THAT IN THE REGULATORY COMPLIANCE LINE AND CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS LINE, THEY'RE VERY MINIMAL INVESTMENT. UM, OUT OF OUR ENTIRE $905,000, THAT BUDGET BREAKS DOWN TO ABOUT 55% IS OUR STAFFING COMPONENT. SO THAT'S MANAGEMENT AND MAINTENANCE COMBINED. UM, IF YOU LOOK INTO CONTRACTED SERVICES, SO THIS WOULD BE, UM, SERVICES WE CONTRACT OUT FOR STORMWATER REPAIRS, THAT MAKES UP, UH, ALMOST A QUARTER OF OUR BUDGET AT 22%. THOSE ARE REPAIRS THAT WE CANNOT PERFORM IN HOUSE. UH, THE REST OF THIS IS ENCAPSULATED IN THINGS THAT ARE, UH, PRETTY WELL FIXED. OUR OFFICE LEASE OFFICE SUPPLIES, UM, OUR DATA INTEGRATORS COST, WHICH IS PRETTY WELL FIXED, IT MAKES UP ABOUT 12% OF THE BUDGET. SO, GETTING INTO THE OPTIONS THAT WERE OFFERED BY CDM SMITH, UM, I DON'T WANNA SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON RANKING NUMBER FOUR AND RANKING NUMBER THREE. AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS THEY DO NOT FULLY ADDRESS, UH, THE NEEDS OF THE CITY. UM, YOU'LL NOTICE HERE THAT THIS IS RANK NUMBER FOUR, IT'S LEAST PREFERABLE. UM, WE HAVE OUR MA OUR MANAGEMENT, MAINTENANCE, REGULATORY COMPLIANCE, AND CAPITAL LINES, UM, AS YOU SEE THERE WITH NO MONEY ALLOCATED TO CAPITAL UNTIL FY 30. UM, THIS POINT WILL BE MADE LATER IN THE PRESENTATION WHEN I SHOW YOU THE LIST OF CAPITAL PROJECTS. UM, AND I DO WANT TO POINT FOR REGULATORY COMPLIANCE. JUST SO EVERYBODY'S AWARE. THE CITY IS A REGULATED MS FOUR COMMUNITY. UM, WE DO HAVE NUTRIENT REDUCTIONS TO MEET THAT REQUIRES INVESTMENT. WE ALSO HAVE CAPITAL NEEDS TO MEET. UM, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'LL GET INTO RANKINGS NUMBER TWO AND, AND NUMBER ONE WILL BETTER SUPPORT THOSE LINES. AGAIN, RANKING NUMBER THREE, IT ADDRESSES SOME OF THE REGULATORY COMPONENT OF THE PROGRAM, BUT IT DOES DEFER CAPITAL NEEDS UNTIL RIGHT AROUND FY 28. THIS WOULD'VE BEEN A EIGHT YEAR, UM, 50% ANNUAL INCREASE OF THE UTILITY FEE FROM WHERE IT STANDS CURRENTLY. UH, STAFF RANKING NUMBER TWO, UH, THIS IS A TWO YEAR, UM, ANNUAL $2 INCREASE AND A REDUCTION OF THE UTILITY INCENTIVE FOR INDUSTRY TO 20%. UM, SO ESSENTIALLY ONE WOULD TAKE EFFECT THIS YEAR AND THEN TAKE EFFECT IN FY 27. ULTIMATELY BRINGING FUND FUNDING LEVELS UP TO, UH, JUST UNDER 2.4 MILLION. AND YOU'LL SEE SOME FUNDING AVAILABLE IN THE REGULATORY COMPLIANCE AND THE CAPITAL PROGRAM LINES WITH MANAGEMENT AND MAINTENANCE, UM, STAYING RELATIVELY FLAT AT. AND THEN THE PREFERRED ALTERNATIVE, WHICH IS, UM, STAFF RANKING NUMBER ONE, IT'S THE ONE THAT WE RECOMMEND IS THE $8 UTILITY RATE INCREASE AND THE REDUCTION OF THE INDUSTRIAL CREDIT TO 20%. YOU'LL SEE THAT THAT PROVIDES A STABLE SOURCE [01:35:01] OF FUNDING AND MAYBE NOT, UM, COMPLETELY ADEQUATE IN THE LONG TERM. HOWEVER, A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION TO HELP SUPPORT REGULATORY COMPLIANCE NEEDS AS WELL AS CAPITAL PROGRAM NEEDS, WHICH ARE, ARE MOUNTING PRETTY FAST AS WE'VE SEEN IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THIS RELATIVE TO OUR CURRENT BUDGET, AND PLEASE, UM, YOU, YOU MAY DISREGARD THE, THE BOTTOM TABLE IS LISTED AS FY 25. THAT'S OUR CURRENT BUDGET. IT'S MORE TO REPRESENT THAT OUR $905,000 BUDGET STAYS WHERE IT IS ACROSS THE BOARD. UM, LOOKING UP ABOVE, WE, YOU'LL NOTICE THAT AT THE END OF FY 27, DEPENDING ON OUR REGULATORY COMPLIANCE NEEDS, THAT NUMBER DROPS OFF AND THE CAPITAL NUMBER JUMPS UP, ALLOWING US TO INVEST MORE MON MONEY IN THE CAPITAL PROJECTS LINE. UM, AND HOPEFULLY AT SOME POINT WITH CLEAN AUDITS MAY BE ABLE TO SUPPORT DEBT SERVICE. UM, THE IDEA FOR THE STORMWATER UTILITIES FOR IT TO STAND ON ITS OWN, UM, THIS HAPPENS A LOT IN NEW UTILITIES. WATER, UTILITIES, WASTEWATER, UTILITIES BACK IN THE DAY, UM, THEY WERE CREATED AND THEY WERE LARGELY SUBSIDIZED BY GENERAL FUNDS. UH, THE IDEA OF THE UTILITY IS OBVIOUSLY TO GET AWAY FROM THAT AND BE SELF-SUSTAINING. AND THAT'S WHAT THIS AT LEAST STARTS US DOWN THE ROAD TO GET TO. UH, THIS IS A LIST OF CAPITAL PROJECTS THAT WE KNOW OF RIGHT NOW. UM, YOU'LL SEE SOME MONEY PROGRAMMED IN AND SOME OF THESE SOURCES OF FUNDS ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE UTILITY. THEY COULD BE OUTSIDE STATE FUNDS AND THE ONES WITHOUT A COST IDENTIFIED, THAT'S BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T EVEN GOT TO THEM YET. SO YOU START TO SEE THE MAGNITUDE OF THESE PROJECTS, IT MOUNTS PRETTY QUICKLY AND THAT'S WHERE THE CAPITAL LINE AND THE BUDGET BECOMES INCREASINGLY IMPORTANT. AND AGAIN, OUR STAFF RECOMMENDATION IS TO INCREASE THE BASE, UH, RATE FOR THE UTILITY FROM FOUR TO $8 REDUCTION OF THE INDUSTRIAL CREDIT TO 20% FROM 90%. AND WE WOULD ASK THAT, UM, COUNCIL, HELP US TO, UM, CONDUCT A STORM WATER UTILITY FEE ASSESSMENT EVERY FOUR YEARS, ENSURE THE NECESSARY FUNDS ARE BUDGETED DURING EACH OF OUR BUDGETING CYCLES. AND WITH THAT, I'LL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS. YOU CAN GO BACK TO THE LAST CLASS PAGE 20. SO I HAVE YOU COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY AND THEN COUNCILOR PELHAM. SO, SO THERE'S A REDUCTION, THERE'S A 70% DIFFERENCE WITH THE REDUCTION OF THIS, UH, UTILITY INCENTIVE. CORRECT. BUT THEN HOW, HOW MUCH, HOW MUCH DOES THAT, UH, MAKE? IT GETS US FROM ABOUT 9 0 5 TO ABOUT 1.315 WITHOUT ANY INCREASE IN THE RATE. THAT'S JUST A REDUCTION OF THE CREDIT, THE, OF THE INCENTIVE. SO YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT A HUNDRED, A FEW HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS JUST FOR THE REDUCTION OF THE CREDIT. SO, SO IT'S A COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE WE'RE GETTING FROM THAT. AND HOW MUCH TOTAL IS IT WITH THE $4 INCREASE WITH THE UTILITY? HOW MUCH IS THIS TOTAL? SO YOU GO FROM 9 0 5 TO 2.2 0.3, SO 2 MILLION, YOU GO, YOU GET EXTRA MILLION DOLLARS. SO WHY IS THE INCREASE THAT'S, IF YOU INCREASE THE UTILITY RATE FROM FOUR TO EIGHT, IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT INCREASE, OR I DON'T SEE WHAT YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT. INCREASE. A TREMENDOUS INCREASE. UH, COUNCILOR PELLUM THAT WAS IN YOUR INSURED, YOU WANT THEM TO GET, INSTEAD OF GETTING 90% CREDIT, YOU WANT THEM TO GET 20%. THE RECOMMENDATION IS FOR A 20% INCENTIVE. YES. YEAH. ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. OKAY. UM, I HAVE NO PROBLEM, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD WITH REDUCING THE, UM, INDUSTRIAL INCENTIVE FROM 90 TO 20%, UM, AND BEFORE, UH, GOING UP ON THE RATE, UM, I'D MUCH RATHER SEE THE STORMWATER BILLING DONE, UM, WITH THE REAL ESTATE TAXES AS OPPOSED TO THE MONTHLY BILLING. YOU CAN ELIMINATE THE DATA INTEGRATORS, UM, 12% PIECE HERE ON YOUR EXPENSES. UM, IN ADDITION YOU'LL INCREASE YOUR COLLECTION RATE. UM, SO I MEAN, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WOULD BE WILLING TO SUPPORT. UM, I AGREE. BUT AS I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, LAST MONTH, UM, YOU KNOW, I JUST, I, I JUST, I HAVE A HARD TIME JUSTIFYING GOING UP ON A RATE WHEN I'M STILL WAITING FOR STREETS TO BE PAVED THAT WERE SIGNED OFF IN MULTIPLE YEARS BUDGETS. AND I JUST DID A 4 CENT INCREASE REAL ESTATE TAX RATE, WHICH I [01:40:01] KNOW, YOU KNOW, IT WAS NEEDED. YOU KNOW, WE HADN'T RAISED THE REAL ESTATE RATE IN OVER 10 YEARS TO FUND A LOT OF THESE CAPITAL PROJECTS. BUT I'M STILL SITTING HERE, YOU KNOW, GOING INTO, YOU KNOW, SIX MONTHS INTO THE FISCAL YEAR AND I STILL DON'T HAVE THE FIRST STREET PAVED. YEAH, I, I, I'M SORRY I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE RELEVANCE OF STREETS AND STORMWATER, BUT MAYBE MR. NO, THERE, THERE IS NONE. UM, BUT WE'D HAPPY TO GIVE YOU A, UH, A ENCUMBERED CONTRACT THAT WE HAVE WITH NEW MARKET OR ANNUAL, UH, FOR WORK JUST TO BEGIN IN THE SPRING. UM, I REALLY DON'T SEE ANY CONNECTION WITH THE PAVEMENT TO THE STORM WATER PROGRAM. UM, LIKE I SAID, WE CAN, WE CAN HAVE SOMETHING OVER TO YOU, UH, I WOULD IMAGINE WITHIN BY, BY THE END OF THE MONTH MM-HMM . BEFORE THE FIRST OF THE YEAR, WE CAN HAVE A, UH, A CONTRACT MM-HMM . TO SHOW YOU FOR WHAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE DONE ON THE PAVING. PARDON ME. THE ISSUE IS, UM, ESPECIALLY WITH THE REGULATORY COMPLIANCE ASPECT OF THIS, WITH THE PHOSPHORUS CREDITS, WE ARE GOING TO BE GOING INTO THE GENERAL FUND TO PAY THESE EXPENSES IF YOU DO NOT DO SOMETHING WITH THIS RATE. PARDON ME. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S OBVIOUSLY COUNCIL'S PREROGATIVE TO DO WHAT YOU DECIDE TO DO. UM, IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF THIS NOW THOUGH, IT'S JUST GONNA GET WORSE. IT'S GONNA SNOWBALL, WE'RE GONNA NEED MORE MONEY OR WE'RE GONNA FALL FARTHER BEHIND. SO, UH, I WOULD JUST SAY THAT THEIR STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS ARE THERE FOR A REASON. THEY'RE BACKED UP WITH FACTS AND MATH. UM, AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS PERTAINING TO THE STORMWATER, THAT WOULD BE GREAT TO ASK THOSE. YEAH, WELL, I CAN TELL YOU IT DOES HAVE RELEVANCE BECAUSE WHAT I HAVE RIGHT HERE IS A WALLET THAT MOST CITIZENS HAVE OF SOME WAY SHAPE, FORM, OR FASHION, AND WE HAD TO TAKE MONEY OUT OF EACH CITIZEN'S WALLET IN ORDER TO FUND CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS. OKAY. SOME OF WHICH WILL GO INTO THE STORM WATER PROGRAM. OKAY? NOW YOU'RE ASKING ME TO HIT THE SAME CITIZENS AGAIN FOR ANOTHER TAX INCREASE. YET THE SAME CAPITAL PROJECTS HAVE GONE UNCOMPLETED SINCE 2019. WELL, IN THE CIP THAT WE SUBMITTED, THAT'S APPROVED. THERE'S A SCHEDULE IN THERE IN THAT CIP WE HAVE NOT MISSED ANY DATES IN THE APPROVED CIP, THE ONE THAT YOU APPROVED FOR ANY OF THE PROJECTS. WE ARE NOT BEHIND ON ANYTHING, SO I'M STILL LOST. WELL, I'M GONNA DISAGREE WITH YOU MR. CAMPBELL BECAUSE CLEARLY THE DEADLINES HAVE BEEN MISSED BECAUSE I STILL HAVE STREETS FROM 2019 THAT HAVE NOT BEEN PAVED. AND AGAIN, WE'VE FUNDED CAPITAL PROJECTS FOR AT LEAST SINCE I'VE BEEN ON COUNCIL FOR THE PAST SIX YEARS, AND THEY HAVEN'T BEEN DONE. I MEAN, AGAIN, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE REST OF CITY COUNCIL ON WHAT THEY WOULD DO WITH THE FEE, BUT I'M CERTAINLY WILLING TO ENTERTAIN IT AND I PROBABLY WILL VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT ONCE THE STREETS ARE DONE AND I CAN, YOU KNOW, I CAN SHOW CITIZEN'S PROGRESS, BUT NO CITIZEN IS GOING TO SIT THERE AND JUST TAKE IT ON THE CHIN WHEN THEY HAD NOTHING TO SHOW FOR THEIR EXTRA TAX DOLLARS. WELL, WE HAVE PLANS AND PE RIGHT AWAY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF WORK THAT'S BEEN COMPLETED HERE IN THE LAST, I DON'T KNOW, A YEAR AND A HALF, TWO YEARS. UH, YEAH, I WOULD SAY WITH LIKE, SO WITH REGARDS TO, I'M RELATIVELY NEW TO THIS, RIGHT? I CAME HERE IN MARCH. UM, THIS SUBJECT AREA IS NOT NEW TO ME. THIS IS YEAR 17 FOR ME. UM, I DO NOTICE WITH A PROJECT LIKE HERETIC, THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE, RIGHT? MM-HMM . IT'S ON THE DOCKET TO BE, UH, TO BE BUILT. HOWEVER, WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, THE STORMWATER FUND DOESN'T CARRY THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THAT PROJECT, AND THE CITY DOESN'T CARRY THE MONEY TO PAY FOR THAT PROJECT. IT'S MM-HMM . ITS COST HAS ESCALATED NOT BECAUSE OF SCOPE INCREASE AT ALL. UM, JUST THE NATURE OF CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS HAS INCREASED SO MUCH THAT WE'LL BE SCRAMBLING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PAY FOR IT. UH, WINSTON CHURCHILL IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT. THE STORMWATER UTILITY WAS NOT PREPARED TO FUND THAT REPAIR. $1.2 MILLION LEFT DOLLARS LATER. HERE WE ARE. UM, SO HERETICS NO DIFFERENT. AND THEN I GUESS WHEN I POINT TO THIS, UH, PROJECT LIST, ALL OF THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO WILL BE ALSO WAITING FOR THOSE PROJECTS. SO IT JUST GETS BACK TO THE CAPITAL FUNDING LINE. AND THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS TO TACKLE THAT BEAST, RIGHT? IT COULD BE THROUGH THE UTILITY, IT COULD DO BE THROUGH GENERAL FUND SUBSIDY, WHICH I'M PERSONALLY NOT A FAN OF, BUT THAT'S NOT MY CHOICE. UM, THERE ARE DIFFERENT WAYS TO FUND IT. THIS IS OUR RECOMMENDATION AND, AND HOW TO FUND IT. AGAIN, I, I UNDERSTAND, BUT THE WINSTON CHURCHILL PROJECT IS A GREAT, ANOTHER GREAT EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS LIFE LIMIT EMERGENCY [01:45:01] DOOMED DONE. WE WERE ABLE TO GET THAT TAKEN CARE OF. WHY CAN I NOT GET STREETS PAVED FROM 2019? I, I'M SORRY. I, YEAH, LIKE I SAID, I CAN'T AND I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE, YOU'RE NEW TO THIS, BUT AGAIN, I HAD A HARD TIME HITTING CITIZENS AGAIN FOR THE SAME THING WHEN THE PROJECTS AREN'T COMPLETED. I MEAN, I JUST CAN'T ARGUE WITH THAT LOGIC. SO COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY, I, I WAS GONNA PIGGYBACK. WELL, ACTUALLY I WAS TRYING TO, I PUT MY LIGHT ON, I WAS TRYING TO KEEP COORDIN THERE, BUT I THINK IT'S LINE, BUT ANYWAY, I'M STILL PIGGYBACK AFTER, UH, ON THAT AS WELL. WE INCREASE THE TAXES, UM, TO THE FACT OF, TO THE TUNE OF NOT HELPING THE CITIZENS. SOME PEOPLE CAME HERE AND COMPLAINED AND TALKED ABOUT CHOOSING, UM, WHETHER OR NOT THEY COULD GET MEDICATION, UM, OR EAT. IS THAT SERIOUS? YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A HUNDRED PERCENT INCREASE. AND THERE ARE OTHER METHODS, WHICH I TOTALLY WAS GONNA SPEAK TO, RELEVANT TO HOW, UM, MAYOR PARTON HAS SUGGESTED AS TO HOW WE COULD GET, UM, THAT SAME COST DUE TAXES. I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT MUCH OF AN INCREASE. I THINK IT IS, YEAH. COMPLETELY OUT OF LINE. AND IT SEEMS MINUTE TO SMALL TO, UH, SOME PEOPLE. BUT THAT BUILDING IT IN LIKE THAT IS JUST, AGAIN, LIKE ANOTHER TAX INCREASE. I I, I, I WON'T VOTE FOR IT. I WON'T VOTE FOR THAT INCREASE. WE HAVE, UH, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN INCREASED FOR THE CITIZENS FROM THE, UH, RAISING THE REAL ESTATE TAXES, AND THEN THEY JUST HAD THE YEAR PRIOR, UM, INCURRED AND INCREASED BECAUSE OF THE ASSESSMENT VALUE. THAT WAS LIKE A BACKDOOR TAX INCREASE ALREADY. SO WE'VE HIT THEM TWICE ALREADY. AND NOW FOR ACCIDENT TO DO IT AGAIN, I JUST THINK THERE'S OTHER, UH, AVENUES THAT WE SHOULD CONSIDER. AND THIS MONTHLY BILL OF A HUNDRED PERCENT, I JUST DON'T THINK IT'S THE AVENUE TO GO DO SO. MIKE, DO YOU KNOW IF THE, UH, AND, AND I'M SORRY, AND ONE OTHER THING, UH, CITIZENS, WE CAN SAY TO THEM ALL, ALL THE TIME THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA PUT THINGS IN PLACE, PUT THINGS IN PLACE, PUT THINGS IN PLACE, THEY VOTE US IN PLACE BY THE THINGS THAT THEY CAN SEE. AND SO I HAVE TO CONCUR WITH THE MAYOR TO SAY THE STREETS HAVE TO BE A PRIORITY. UM, THOSE THINGS HAVE TO BE WORKED ON. I GUARANTEE YOU TURN AROUND RIGHT NOW AND ACCIDENT IN ONE OF 'EM. ALL WE SEE IN OUR TEXT MESSAGES, EMAILS, PHONE CALLS ON SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS ARE CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT HOW ROADS ARE TORE UP. AND, YOU KNOW, THEY CALL US OUT. THAT'S LIKE THE BIGGEST THING AS A CITIZEN, THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST THINGS. IF YOU'RE LIVING IN A HOUSE AND, AND RIDING DOWN THE STREET AND THAT ROAD IS TORE UP, THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR NOTHING ELSE BUT TO GET THOSE STREETS FIXED. SO I HAVE TO CONCUR, UH, WITH THE MAYOR WHEN IT COMES TO THAT. I WOULD LIKE TO ADD ONE OTHER THING TO THAT TOO. UH, I, I WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT IT'S, IT'S ALSO DIFFICULT TO COMPLETE, UH, CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS WHEN WE'RE UNDER SPENDING FREEZES WHEN WE HAVE LOW CASH FLOW AND WHEN WE'RE TOLD NOT TO SPEND MONEY. SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I TOTALLY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM. I KNOW THAT A HUNDRED PERCENT INCREASE, UH, IS A BIG ASK. UH, I KNOW THAT IT'S $4, I WON'T SAY ONLY $4 BECAUSE THAT $4 MEANS SOMETHING TO SOMEBODY. BUT FOR THIS TO STANDALONE, FOR THIS PROJECT TO BE, FOR THIS, UH, FUND TO BE SELF-SUSTAINING, IT'S WHAT IT NEEDS. AND ALL WE CAN DO IS PROVIDE YOU THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE. YOU CAN MAKE THE DECISIONS THAT YOU WANT TO MAKE, AND YOU CAN LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES. SO WE, WE CAN, WE CAN ALSO RESPECTFULLY, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, I DON'T LIKE THAT TONE CONSEQUENCES. I'M SORRY, . I, I DON'T LIKE YOUR TONE WITH THAT. I THINK YOU SHOULD ADDRESS AS MORE HONORABLY THAN TO COME OFF IN, IN THAT TYPE OF TONE OR SPACE, THAT END, UH, COMMENT THAT YOU MADE. BUT SECONDLY, UM, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, OUR, OUR CONSTITUENTS ARE OUR BOSSES, AT THE END OF THE DAY, ABSOLUTELY. WE, WE REPRESENT WHAT THEY'RE ASKING US TO DO. SO WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, UH, FREEZES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, RIGHTLY SO, BECAUSE WE HAVE A BUDGET THAT WE HAVE TO STAY WITHIN, BUT I CAN GUARANTEE YOU, I CAN GUARANTEE YOU AS COUNSELORS AND REPRESENTATIVES OF WARDS, IF YOU ALL BRING TO US, UM, A NEED OF A STREET BEING REPAIRED, I CAN ALMOST GUARANTEE YOU THAT WE'LL GO TO THE CITY MANAGER, ASK HOW MUCH, UH, YOU'LL BRING TO HER, HOW MUCH IT COSTS, AND WE'LL DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN FIT THAT IN AND, AND, AND APPROVE THAT TO [01:50:01] HAPPEN. THOSE THINGS JUST HAVE TO BE BOUGHT BEFORE US. AGAIN, OUR CITIZENS ARE OUR BOSSES. THEY CALLING US ALL THE TIME. SOMETHING LIKE THAT CAN BE, UH, RECTIFIED, NOT JUST TO SIMPLY THROW IT AWAY BECAUSE WE ARE ON A FREEZE. YES, SIR. I DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND. THE ONLY, ONLY THING I WAS ASKING MIKE, IS JUST FOR, UH, AN EXAMPLE ON A RESIDENT IMPACT. THE ISSUE THAT YOU'VE BEEN WORKING ON, IS IT LEE STREET, THE HOME THAT THE HALF A MILLION DOLLAR MINIMUM FIX IS PURCHASING THE PROPERTY? OH, UH, THAT'S HAMPTON AVENUE. HAMPTON AVENUE. SO IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND JUST GIVING THAT AS AN EXAMPLE OF LIKE THE FALLOUT OF, OF, OF NOT ADDRESSING STORM SEW ISSUES. SURE, THANK YOU. IT'S, IT'S ONE OF OUR CAPITAL PROJECTS. SO, UM, THE COUNCIL'S FAMILIAR, UH, LATOYA JENKINS CAME IN HERE, 33 0 7 HAMPTON AVE. UH, ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE I MET IN THE CITY OF HOPEWELL IN MY PROFESSIONAL CAPACITY HERE. UM, I DON'T FORGET MUCH. UM, I'M AN ELEPHANT WHEN IT COMES TO THAT. SO I REMEMBER A LOT AND I REMEMBER A LOT OF PEOPLE, I REMEMBER HER DISTINCTLY. THAT PARTICULAR PROJECT IS RELATIVELY EXPENSIVE FROM A CONVENTIONAL FIX. UM, TO, TO BASICALLY PUT IT BRIEFLY, UH, IF YOU HAVE AN UNDERSIZED PIPE UNDER A ROADWAY THAT ACTS AS A DAM, WELL, HER HOUSE IS THE FIRST HOUSE UPSTREAM, UM, AT A MINIMUM A HALF A MILLION DOLLARS. UM, WE THOUGHT THAT GOING INTO WINSTON CHURCHILL TURNED OUT TO BE A BILLION. UM, THERE ARE, THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THAT PROJECT OR THAT PROPERTY. UM, I WON'T GET INTO THOSE TONIGHT. UM, BUT THAT'S ONE PARTICULAR ASPECT OF THE STORM WATER FUND, NOT HAVING ENOUGH FUNDING IN ITSELF TO HELP PROGRAM AND FUNDING TO BEGIN DESIGN ON PROJECTS SUCH AS HERS. UM, HERS ISN'T THE ONLY ONE. IT'S ONE THAT STANDS OUT IN RECENT MEMORY AND SHE'S BEEN HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT. UM, THERE ARE OTHERS ON THIS LIST THAT HAVE JUST AS MUCH, IF NOT MORE, UH, IMPACT TO THE COMMUNITY. I CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT MY FIRST BOUT WITH A UTILITY FEE AND THE IMPACT THAT IT HAS ON CITIZENS, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF OTHER TAX INCREASES. SO I DON'T ENVY YOUR POSITION IN HAVING TO CONSIDER STUFF LIKE THIS. UM, JUST PURELY AS STAFF, OUR RECOMMENDATION IS AS MANAGERS OF THIS FUND AND OF THIS UTILITY, THIS IS WHAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO DO, IS TO PUT FORTH THESE RECOMMENDATIONS. AND I GET IT, IT'S UNPOPULAR. UM, BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT PROJECT LIST, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT NOT JUST TOMORROW, BUT 20 YEARS FROM NOW. UM, AND HOW DO WE MAKE PROGRESS ON THOSE PROJECTS? AGAIN, I DON'T ENVY YOUR POSITION. IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH ONE AND IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S AN INCREASE. THAT'S WHAT IT IS. IT'S AN INCREASE. I THINK WE GET BUDGET IN. I THINK WHEN YOU HAVE BUDGET REQUESTS AND ACTS AND YOU HAVE THESE, UH, PROJECTS THAT NEED TO BE TUNED IN, THAT THEY CAN BE REQUESTED. AND THEN OTHER, UH, THINGS THAT WE PUT MONEY TOWARDS, WE CAN KIND OF, YOU KNOW, MOVE THOSE AROUND IN THE COMING, UH, YEAR WHEN IT COMES TO BUDGETING TIME, BUT NOT JUST TO SHOOT THE CITIZENS ANOTHER INCREASE WHEN THERE'S A LOT OF MOVING AROUND AND MOVING PARTS AND ALREADY GONNA BE MORE MONEY COMING IN BY THE OTHER INCREASES THAT WE'VE HAD ALREADY. SO I THINK THIS IS JUST A BUDGETING THING AND A RECONSIDERATION OF WHERE, UM, MONIES ARE GOING FOR FUTURE BUDGETS. OKAY. I DIGRESS. UH, COUNCILLOR JOYNER. YEAH. WELL, I'M HAVE TO, I'M HAVE TO DISAGREE. WITH SOME OF THE COUNSELORS. UM, YOU KNOW, I, I THINK, I THINK YOU SPOKE TO SOMETHING AND I UNDERSTAND. I MEAN, THIS IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT INCREASE IT, AND IT IS, AND I DON'T WANT TO USE THE TERM JUST $4 EITHER, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS HA THE REASON THAT WE'RE IN THIS SITUATION IS BECAUSE PREVIOUS COUNCILS HAVE NOT LOOKED FORWARD. I THINK ALSO, YOU KNOW, OUR CITIZENS COUNT ON COUNCIL AND THEY COUNT ON CITY ADMINISTRATION TO TRY TO DO OPERATIONALLY THE RIGHT THINGS. AND, UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, THE, MAYBE THE REASON THAT OUR STREETS ARE, YOU KNOW, A MESS. AND THE REASON THAT WE HAVE THIS KIND OF SITUATION IS BECAUSE PERHAPS PREVIOUS COUNCILS WERE A LITTLE SHORTSIGHTED. UM, THE FACT THAT THIS RATE HAS NOT BEEN INCREASED IN 10 YEARS, WHY INFLATION HAS GONE CRAZY. UM, HOW ARE WE GONNA, HOW DO WE, YOU KNOW, AND WE SAY, OH, WE CAN, WE CAN FUND IT DIFFERENT WAYS. WELL, HOW THEN LET'S, THEN LET'S GIVE US THE REASONS. LET'S, YOU KNOW, LET'S LIST HOW WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THIS. WHAT, WHAT MONIES ARE WE GONNA TAKE FROM WHAT HAS ALREADY BEEN ALLOCATED TO CHANGE THIS? AND, UM, I DO THINK THAT, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SAY HERE, THEIR RECOMMENDATIONS, CONDUCT A UTILITY FEE ASSESSMENT EVERY FOUR YEARS AND ENSURE THAT THE NECESSARY FUNDS ARE BUDGETED FOR, FOR DURING EACH BUDGETING CYCLE. AND I THINK THE BUDGET, WHEN WE GO BACK TO SO MANY OF THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE, BUDGETING IS A REAL ISSUE. AND, YOU KNOW, THERE, I'LL BRING UP [01:55:01] A SORE SUBJECT. WE HAD SURPLUSES EARLIER IN THE YEAR THAT CAME BECAUSE BUDGETING WAS NOT DONE EFFECTIVELY. AND, UM, NOW, YOU KNOW, THE ALLOCATIONS OF THOSE SURPLUSES, THOSE CAN COME INTO QUESTION, FOLLOWING QUESTION, ET CETERA. BUT I I, I CONCUR WITH REDUCING THIS 90% UTILITY FEE INCENTIVE. I, I'M, I THINK THAT'S FINE. I THINK IT NEEDS TO GO TO 20%. UM, THE INDUSTRY DOES NOT DESERVE THAT KIND OF A PASS. AND I DON'T KNOW WHEN, I DON'T KNOW WHEN THOSE, UM, WHEN THOSE INCENTIVES WERE PUT INTO PLACE. I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY THAT WAS, BUT MAYBE WE'LL NEVER FIND OUT. UM, I, I JUST THINK THAT WE'RE, THIS IS A, THIS IS A REAL SERIOUS THING. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE NUMBERS, I MEAN THE, THE MONEY'S NOT GONNA COME FROM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T PULL IT OUTTA THE SKY. I WISH WE HAD A MONEY TREE. UM, BUT I, I DO, I'M GONNA HAVE TO, I MEAN, I, YOU KNOW, IF WHEN IT COMES TO A VOTE, I'M GONNA HAVE TO, UH, SUPPORT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE STAFF UNDERSTANDING THAT, UM, THAT WHILE SOME OF THE CITIZENS MAY SAY, OH, LOOK WHAT YOU'RE DOING TO US, WE'RE GONNA SAY, LOOK, WE ARE TRYING TO, WE'RE TRYING TO FIX SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN BROKEN FOR A LONG TIME. AND, UM, AND I DO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT ANY TAX INCREASES IN THE FUTURE, PERIOD. AND WE MAY NEED TO LOOK AT RESENDING SOME INCREASES THAT WERE DONE IN LAST YEAR. BUT THIS ONE I'M ON BOARD. I THINK YOU'VE DONE A, A GOOD JOB. I, I CAN SEE THE NUMBERS RUNNING AND I'M GONNA, I'M GONNA VOTE TO SUPPORT YOUR RECOMMENDATIONS. OKAY. UM, LET ME ASK THIS QUESTION BEFORE, 'CAUSE I CUT THIS WHOLE SIDE. ARE ANY OF Y'ALL CALLING TO MAKE A MOTION OR ANYTHING? NO. OKAY. BECAUSE I JUST NEED TO OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING AND CLOSE IT. YEAH. ALRIGHT. SO IT'S, UH, DENTON, PELHAM, AND THEN HOLLOWAY. OKAY. I JUST, IN THIS PRESENTATION, YOU PUT DOWN THE ONE SLIDE THAT SHOWED A LOT OF THE PROJECTS FOR THE CITY OF POPWELL. THAT'S CORRECT. A LOT. STORM WATER PROJECT ONLY. YEAH. , IT'S QUITE A LIST. SO YOU ARE TELLING ME THAT IF WE AND, AND HOPEWELL, WE DON'T MAKE A PRODUCT THAT WE GET PROFITS FROM AND WE'RE NOT GETTING RICH OFF OF IT, IT FALLS ON THE TAXPAYERS BACK. THIS IS WHERE IT FALLS. SO IT LOOKS LIKE TONIGHT YOU ARE TAUGHT GIVING US A CHOICE. EITHER WE TRY TO FUND IT SO YOU CAN DO YOUR JOB AND FULFILL THESE PROJECTS AND THEY'RE QUITE A LIST OR WE DON'T APPROVE IT AND THESE PROJECTS WILL NOT GET DONE AND THE CITIZENS WILL NOT BE HAPPY ABOUT THAT. WE'RE CAUGHT BETWEEN A CATCH 22 HERE. AND I DON'T KNOW THE BEST ANSWER. I JUST KNOW RECENTLY I TALKED TO MR. CAMPBELL ABOUT THE PROJECT ON HERETIC AVENUE. WE HAD AN ISSUE, WONDERED WHY IT HADN'T BEEN FIXED. THE WORK HAD BEEN, BEEN WITH THE ENGINEERING, IT WAS READY. WE DIDN'T HAVE THE MONEY, SO IT DIDN'T GET DONE. THIS WILL GIVE US THE MONEY TO GET THESE PROJECTS DONE. NO. AM I RIGHT? NO. THIS YES MA'AM. THIS WILL DEFINITELY GET US WORKING DOWN A PATH. AND, AND, AND I DO, I DO APOLOGIZE. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY TO COUNCIL MAYOR. PARDON? UH, VICE MAYOR GORE FOR, UH, MY TONE. IF I WAS, IF I WAS TOO PASSIONATE, I AM, I CARE SO VERY DEEPLY ABOUT THIS BECAUSE I CARE ABOUT THIS CITY. THAT'S WHY I CAME HERE. UM, I'M NOT TRYING TO DO A, I'M NOT, YOU CAN'T, YOU KNOW, I'M, I'M LEAVING, SO YOU CAN'T, IT'S NONE OF THAT. IT'S BECAUSE I, I REALLY, REALLY CARE. I WANT TO SEE GOOD THINGS HAPPEN FOR THIS PLACE. I WANNA LEAVE THIS PLACE IN A MUCH BETTER SHAPE THAN WHEN I FOUND IT. AND, UM, UNFORTUNATELY, WE'RE SO FAR BEHIND IN EVERYTHING INFRASTRUCTURE. AND I'M NOT TELLING ANYONE HERE ANYTHING THEY DON'T KNOW. IT JUST, IT'S, IT COSTS MONEY. AND THE ONLY WAY THAT WE'RE GONNA MAKE PROGRESS IS WITH, UH, WITH MORE REVENUE AND WITH A STORMWATER FUND, THE ONLY SOURCE OF REVENUE IS THE UTILITY FEE. 'CAUSE THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN FIX THROUGH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING WE CAN FIX THROUGH OTHER MEANS. AND WE CERTAINLY CAN'T RATE THE GENERAL FUND WHEN THE GENERAL FUND CAN'T COVER THE THINGS THAT IT NEEDS TO COVER RIGHT NOW. I MEAN, CHIEF RUPERT PUT UP A FANTASTIC [02:00:01] PRESENTATION AND I SUPPORT HIM A HUNDRED PERCENT. AND I'M THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC WORKS. SO WE REALLY, I REALLY JUST WANT TO SEE A UTILITY FUND, FUND THE UTILITY SO THAT YOU GUYS HAVE THE FREEDOM TO USE YOUR GENERAL FUND FOR WHAT YOU DEEM NECESSARY. THAT'S REALLY WHERE I'M COMING FROM. I WILL SAY THAT THIS ISSUE, UM, IS NOT UNIQUE TO HOPEWELL. UM, WHEN I WAS ONCE A LOWLY STORMWATER MANAGER IN 2007, I WENT TO THE CITY OF WAYNESBORO. THEY HAD A CAPITAL IMPROVEMENTS PLAN. AND WHEN I STARTED TO LOOK AT THE PROJECTS, AND I FOUND SOME DOCUMENTS IN MY OFFICE FROM 19 61 17 OF THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS IN THAT CITY THAT WERE ON THE CURRENT CIP WERE FROM 1961. SO I GET WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT COUNCILS NOT REALLY KNOWING WHAT TO DO AND MAYBE FEELING PARALYZED ABOUT WHAT DIRECTION TO GO. UM, BUT THAT JUST SHOWS YOU THE COMPOUNDING EFFECT. AND THESE THINGS DON'T GET BUILT OVERNIGHT. WE'VE BEEN VERY FORTUNATE THAT OUR, UH, MAINTENANCE CREW THAT WE HAVE, UM, WE'VE WORKED WITH THEM TO EXPAND THEIR CAPABILITIES, TAKING ON SOME OF THESE PROJECTS OURSELF, HOPING TO REDUCE SOME OF THAT COST, ELIMINATE SOME OF THESE ISSUES THAT THEY HAVE THE CAPACITY TO BE ABLE TO DO. UM, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO LARGER PROJECTS THAT REQUIRE THE ASSISTANCE OF CONSULTING FIRMS AND GENERAL CONTRACTING FIRMS TO BUILD, IT'S TOUGH AND IT'S EXPENSIVE. AND THIS, THAT'S, THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO RECOMMEND, WHAT WE HAVE TO RECOMMEND IS IF WE START TO CHIP AWAY AT THIS, IT HAS TO START SOMEWHERE. OKAY. UH, COUNCILLOR PELLUM, HOLLOWAY, THEN GORE. AND HAVE Y'ALL FIGURED OUT OF ALL THESE, UH, PROJECTS, WHICH IS STILL SOME YET TO GO, TO BE ADDED TO THIS LIST? YES MA'AM. HOW MUCH, THE ONES THAT DON'T HAVE ANY NUMBERS BESIDE IT, DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MUCH EACH ONE OF THOSE PROJECTS IS MORE THAN WHAT THIS INCREASE WOULD YIELD. RIGHT. THE MONEY YOU HAVE FROM THE PLANTS THAT YIELD, I THINK IT'S $400,000. THE FOUR $4 INCREASE YIELDS ANOTHER 400,000 AIN'T WORTH $800,000. I DON'T THINK THAT COULD FUND ONE PROJECT ON THIS LIST. NO, NO, IT CAN'T. AND THE WAY UTILITIES ARE BUILT, UH, THIS, THIS HAPPENED LONG AGO WITH WATER AND WASTEWATER UTILITIES WHEN THEY GET STARTED, UM, GENERATING, UH, REVENUE THROUGH UTILITY INCREASES IS GENERALLY USED AS A WAY TO SUPPORT DEBT SERVICE. MM-HMM . UM, AND THEN DEBT SERVICES UTILIZED TO BORROW LARGER SUMS OF MONEY TO BE ABLE TO TACKLE FOUR, FIVE PROJECTS AT A TIME. OBVIOUSLY THAT'S A DECISION COUNCIL MAKES REFERENDUMS ARE ISSUED. THE SAME MANAGER RECOMMENDS IT GETS YOU TO THAT POINT. RIGHT NOW WE ARE, WE ARE FLAT. WE THERE, THERE IS NO CAPACITY FOR CAPITAL INVESTMENT. UM, IF WE HAD A BOND RATE, IF WE CAN'T, WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY COMING IN TODAY TO MAKE THE PAYMENTS. YEAH. WE'RE HAVING THE MONEY AND WE DON'T HAVE A BOND RATE, SO WE CAN'T SO WE CAN'T EVEN INCUR DEBT. RIGHT? CORRECT. EXACTLY. CORRECT. SO EVEN IF WE COULD INCUR DEBT, WE CAN'T USE THAT SERVICE. RIGHT. BUT AS GOOD UTILITY MANAGEMENT, THAT'S TYPICALLY THE STUFF THAT PEOPLE TAKE REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE INCREASE IS, IS TO GENERATE CAPACITY TO SUPPORT, UH, DEPRECIATION AND DEBT SERVICE. IF WE COULD BORROW THE MONEY BECAUSE THERE'S NO WAY THAT, AND HOW, HOW WOULD, HOW WOULD WE PHRASE THAT TO DO THE REAL ESTATE, MR. MAYOR THAT YOU WERE SUGGESTING, HOW WOULD WE HAVE TO VOTE? HOW WOULD WE HAVE TO MAKE THAT MOTION SO THAT THE $4 WILL BE ADDED TO THE REAL ESTATE COST MM-HMM . INSTEAD OF INDIVIDUAL CITIZENS. JUST A SIMPLE MOTION. OKAY. THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. YEP. JUST DO, YEAH. OKAY. YEAH. CAN WE CONCERN, I MEAN, I, I WOULD CONSIDER VOTING FOR IT THAT WAY VERSUS JUST THAT'S AN EXTRA COUPLE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS RIGHT THERE. YEAH. THERE'S A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS TO BE SAVED BY MOVING OFF OF DATA INTEGRATORS INTO REAL ESTATE. YEAH. IT'S $105,000 EXPENSE ANNUALLY. YEAH. WE, WITH A COLLECTION AWAY FROM DATA INTEGRATORS. YEAH. SO THAT'D BE ANOTHER A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. OKAY. WHICH IS EVERY PENNY'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. RIGHT. RIGHT. IT'S JUST, IT'S SOMETHING WE SHOULD DO REGARDLESS. EVEN IF WE DO NOTHING ELSE, I WOULD CONSIDER DOING IT THAT WAY. 'CAUSE $4 DIVIDED BY 12 IS REAL CHEAPER THAN $4. OKAY. AND $4 A MONTH, RIGHT? YEAH. $48 A ADD IT TO YOUR PROPERTY CHECK. YEAH. A IT'S STILL, YOU'RE STILL PAYING. WOULD YOU, ARE YOU SAYING CONVERT THE WHOLE $8 TO SO THE, THE IDEA WOULD BE TO HAVE THE STORM WATER UTILITY FEE ON THE PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX. AND THAT DOES TWO THINGS. OKAY. WELL, THREE THINGS. AT FIRST, IT ELIMINATES $105,000 AS MAYOR PARTON POINTED OUT IN WASTE, UH, FOR DADDY INTEGRATORS. THE SECOND THING IT DOES IS IT, IT INCREASED COLLECTION RATES. COOL. SO WE'D ACTUALLY HAVE A, WE PROBABLY, WE'D [02:05:01] SEE A NICE LITTLE BUMP IN JUST NOT, NOT A HUGE ONE, BUT A NICE BUMP IN, IN OUR COLLECTION. BUT THE THIRD THING IT DOES, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IT DOES IS IT PUTS THE ONUS OF THE STORM WATER UTILITY ON THE ACTUAL PROPERTY OWNER, NOT A RENTER. RIGHT. SO THE PROPERTY OWNER WOULD RECEIVE THE, THE ONE WHO OWNS THE ASSET WOULD RECEIVE THE, WOULD RECEIVE THE BILL. RIGHT. AND IT WOULD BE UP TO THEM HOW THEY, WHAT, WHAT THEY DO WITH THAT. OKAY. SO, YEAH. OKAY. COUNSELOR HOLLOWAY, THEN COUNCILOR GORE, AND THEN LET'S OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING SO WE CAN START DOING MOTIONS. MR. MAYOR? YEAH, I HAVEN'T SPOKEN YET AND I THINK YOU'RE CALLING PEOPLE FOR THEIR SECOND ROUND ALREADY. I THOUGHT YOU SPOKE ONE THIS COUPLE. MM-HMM. OKAY. WELL, GO AHEAD, . I, I WOULD JUST SAY I UNDERSTAND ALL SIDES OF THE EQUATION. UNFORTUNATELY, YOU'RE NOT GONNA LIKE MY ANSWER AS WELL. I'M NOT, I PERSONALLY AM NOT A FAN OF, UH, REQUESTS FOR ADJUSTMENTS OUTSIDE THE BUDGET CYCLE. WE'RE ABOUT TO COME ON TO PREPARING NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET MM-HMM . UM, WHICH INCLUDES FEES AND OTHER ITEMS. THIS SHOULD BE A PART OF THAT REVENUE DISCUSSION FOR COUNCIL TO ADOPT THE BUDGET. I THINK THE TIMING OF THIS IS PERFECT. AS AS IF THIS WAS A WORK SESSION, THIS WOULD BE PERFECT. UM, HOWEVER, I DO THINK THAT THIS SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE BUDGET PROCESS NEXT YEAR. SO YOU GUYS SHOULD BE TEAMING THAT UP WITH THE FINANCE DEPARTMENT AND THE CITY MANAGER IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, TO PRESENT THAT AS PART OF THE BUDGET REQUEST. UM, THAT WILL ALSO SUPPORT THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROJECTS, ET CETERA. UM, SAME THING GOES WITH ANY OTHER DEPARTMENTS THAT NEED FEES, PARTS AND RECREATION PLANNING DEPARTMENT. ALL OF THAT SHOULD BE THE CONVERSATION AT THAT TIME. SO I PERSONALLY RECOMMEND THIS COMING BACK DURING THE BUDGET SESSION AND TABLE AND GET FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION. I BELIEVE THIS WAS POSSIBLY FOR IMPLEMENTATION AT THE START OF THE NEXT FISCAL YEAR, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN. CORRECT. BUT, UM, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YEAH. I JUST WANNA BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. THIS WASN'T A NEXT YEAR, JULY ONE. YEAH. THIS WASN'T A MID-YEAR ADJUSTMENT. I GUESS THIS WHAT I WAS GETTING AT, BUT I'M ALSO SAYING THE WHOLE POINT IS EVEN IF YOU STARTED JULY ONE, IT'S, YOU'RE STARTING IT FOR NEXT YEAR'S BUDGET, WHICH AGAIN GOES BACK TO BUDGET CONVERSATIONS. SURE. RIGHT. YEP. SO I THINK THAT ALL THIS TIES INTO THE BUDGET CONVERSATIONS THAT SHOULD BE STARTING IN JANUARY, FEBRUARY. SO IT WOULD STILL BE IMPLEMENT JULY ONE, BUT I DO THINK THIS IS VERY PREMATURE FOR THIS TIME. SO THE, THE, WHAT I HAD IN MIND WITH THIS, AND THE ACTION I WAS ASKING FOR WAS, WOULD BE FOR THIS TO TAKE PLACE FOR, UH, JANUARY ONE. BUT THE, THE OTHER, THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT IS, UM, UH, I ALSO WANT TO JUST REMIND EVERYONE THAT, EXCUSE ME, I'LL JUST SAY FOR THE RECORD, I DID ASK FOR IT TO BE TABLED UNTIL THE BUDGET CYCLE. SO THAT'S TECHNICALLY A MOTION. SO YOU CAN FINISH WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. BUT I DO WANT TO BE CLEAR THAT I DID PUT THAT ON THE FLOOR FOR ACTION. WELL, WE GOTTA DO THE PUBLIC HEARING. CORRECT. SO I WOULD JUST, I WAS JUST GONNA FINISH UP BY WHEN WE, WHEN WE WORKED OUR, THROUGH OUR BUDGET WITH RUSS, UH, BRANSON, UM, THE $4 STORMWATER UTILITY INCREASE WAS IN IN THAT IT JUST, WASN'T IT ? IT WAS, IT WAS, IT WAS PART OF OUR, OUR APPROVED BUDGET AND RECOMMENDATION. YES. THAT'S ALL I'M BRINGING UP. MM-HMM . SO ANYWAYS, THAT'S ALL. I JUST CALL IT OUT NEXT TIME TOO. EVEN LIKE, JUST LIKE YOU'RE DOING NOW. RIGHT. CALL. SO HERE'S THE, I DON'T THINK YOU WERE HIRED WHEN WE HAD ALL THESE ISSUES WITH THE SWITCHING OVER ADMINISTRATIONS, ET CETERA, AND REALIZING THAT STAFF HAD BEEN REQUESTING FOR STUFF THAT NEVER ACTUALLY MADE THE COUNCIL STAFF. YOU COULD TALK TO YOUR, YOUR PEERS THAT WERE HERE BEFORE YOU CAME ON BOARD EYES OPEN. THEY THOUGHT WE WERE JUST DENYING EVERYTHING LEFT AND RIGHT AND COME TO FIND OUT, WE JUST WEREN'T AWARE. SO I WOULD JUST SAY TO YOU, FYI AGAIN, UM, IF AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, THEN YOU NEED TO LET COUNSEL KNOW LIKE, HEY, I'VE BEEN ASKING FOR THIS EVERY SINGLE YEAR. IT NEVER CAME BEFORE YOU. I'VE ASKED FOR THESE FEES. I'VE MADE THIS CASE. NOW WE'RE IN THIS PICKLE. LIKE, KIND OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING NOW, I GET IT, BUT, BUT YOU'RE COMING INTO A SITUATION. TRY TO RESOLVE PRIOR PRACTICES. UNDERSTOOD. UM, BUT I WOULD JUST SAY LIKE, AGAIN, THAT NEEDS TO BE PART OF THE BUDGET CONVERSATION, UM, TO MAKE SURE WHEN YOU DO YOUR DEPARTMENT REQUEST AND IF YOU SAY, WE GUYS, WE DID IT THIS PAST YEAR, PROBABLY THE TIMING OF IT, AGAIN, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT OTHER FEES, , AND THEN WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE. SO I WAS JUST THINKING ABOUT THE TIMING OF IT. THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING. I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU'RE SAYING. BUT'S GONNA THROW STUFF OUTTA WHACK. OKAY. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY, WE HAD A, UH, WE HAD SEVERAL INCREASES THIS YEAR. I JUST SPOKE ON A COUPLE OF 'EM ALREADY. YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT THE TAXES THAT WENT UP, WE ALSO, UH, TOOK TRASH, UH, TRASH. UH, I FORGOT HOW MUCH DID, ANYWAYS, ALL OF THESE LITTLE THINGS ADD UP LIKE QUITE A BIT. ADDING IT TO THE TAX RAMIFICATIONS MAKES IT DIFFERENT. 'CAUSE SOME CITIZENS GET TAX BREAKS BECAUSE OF WHATEVER STATUSES THAT THEY HAVE. SO I WOULD STILL RATHER PUT IT ON THAT END THAN TO PUT IT IN THIS AND TO CONCUR WITH, WHICH IS THE SAME THING I SAID EARLIER WITH VICE MAYOR. UH, THIS IS DEFINITELY [02:10:01] SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HIT A BUDGETING CONVERSATION BECAUSE WITH ALL OF THOSE INCREASES, THE TAX INCREASES AND SO FORTH, THAT MEANT IT INCREASED OUR BUDGET. AND I KNOW YOU HAD THE CONVERSATION THAT YOU WOULD RATHER START A UTILITY FUND SO THAT THESE THINGS WON'T COME OUT OF THE GENERAL FUNDING, BUT THAT SEEMS QUITE VIGOROUS TO ME. IT'S JUST, IT, IT SHOULDN'T GO THAT DIRECTION. IF CITIZENS HAVE BEEN TASKED WITH PAYING, UM, MORE IN TAXES, WHICH HAS INCREASED OUR REVENUE ALREADY, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY BE CONSIDERING, UM, USING THAT MONEY AND INCREASE SOME OF THAT, THOSE FUNDS AND ALLOCATING THEM TO THE DEPARTMENT FOR, UM, FOR BUDGET PURPOSES. AND THEN YOU CAN UTILIZE THOSE FUNDS. AND THEN ON TOP OF THAT, IT MORE SO IN JANUARY IT SEEMS LIKE A WASTE OF TIME BECAUSE THESE FUNDS WON'T EVEN TOUCH, UM, ANY OF THOSE PROJECTS. AND LIKE YOU SAID, YOU WOULD USE IT AS FOR DEBT AND BORROWING MONEY IN WHICH WE COULDN'T DO IN THE FIRST PLACE. SO NOW WE ARE, OH, WE DO HAVE IMMEDIATE NEEDS. NO, I'M, I'M SAYING WE HAVE IMMEDIATE NEEDS, BUT IF, IF THERE'S IMMEDIATE NEEDS THERE, THEN JUST, I MEAN, WE WENT $6 MILLION OVER IN, IN, IN A BUDGET BEFORE. I MEAN, IF SOMETHING IS AN EMERGENCY OR, OR NEEDED, AGAIN, YOU GET THE RIGHT TO COME TO COUNCIL TO BRING THOSE IMMEDIATE NEEDS UP. BUT I, THIS IS A BUDGET CONVERSATION. I THINK IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED WITH THE NEW COUNCIL, UH, THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE COME JANUARY 1ST WHEN THEY STARTED THAT, UH, START THAT. BUT TO PULL IT OUT THIS DIRECTION, I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD HAPPEN THAT WAY. I REALLY HONESTLY THINK IT SHOULD HAPPEN IN A BUDGETING CONVERSATION AND WE CAN PULL FUNDS FROM WHAT WE ARE ALREADY GOING TO BE GETTING AN INCREASE FOR. WE'RE EXPECTED INCOME THAT'S COMING IN BECAUSE OF THE TAX INCREASES AND SO FORTH. THANK YOU. OKAY. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALRIGHT. I DON'T HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP, UH, FOR THIS, UH, PUBLIC HEARING. IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS ISSUE? MAYOR, I HAVE A WRITTEN IN PUBLIC COMMENT. YOU DO? OKAY. GO AHEAD AND READ IT. MAYOR, COUNSELORS AND CITIZENS. CATHERINE PKI, WARD ONE. MY OPINION IS THAT THE INDUSTRY STORM WATER FEE SHOULD BE REDUCED TO 20% AND THAT THE CITIZENS FEE SHOULD NOT BE RAISED. MY QUESTION IS, WHO IN CITY AUTHORIZED THE OUTRAGEOUS 90% CREDIT TO HOPEWELL'S INDUSTRIES? HOPEWELL HAS BEEN TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF BY INDUSTRY QUESTIONABLE FINANCIAL PRACTICES AND LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY THROUGHOUT THE CITY. HOPEWELL IS NOT AN EASY PLACE TO LIVE OR THRIVE. OUR HISTORY SHOWS THIS ALL TOO CLEAR. THANK YOU. OKAY. ALRIGHT. NO ONE IN THE AUDIENCE. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. THE MOTION THAT'S ON THE FLOOR RIGHT NOW IS TO TABLE, UH, THIS DISCUSSION. IS THERE A SECOND? I SECOND. OKAY. MOTION'S BEEN MADE BY VICE MAYOR GORE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILLOR HARRIS COURT AWARD, SIR? YES MA'AM. POSTPONE, YOU NEED TO STATE THE TIME TABLE, UH, POSTPONED IT UNTIL BUDGET. UM, DR. MAKER, WHEN DO YOU ANTICIPATE HAVING BUDGET DISCUSSIONS? COMMENCE BUDGET DISCUSSION WILL START IN MARCH. SO NO EARLIER THAN THE FIRST BUDGET MEETING IN MARCH. OKAY. ANY DISCUSSION? THIS, THIS DOESN'T, AGAIN, THIS IS SEPARATE AND IT DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ANY NEED THAT THEY WILL HAVE. THEY CAN STILL COME TO US TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. RIGHT. THIS IS ABOUT WHAT THEY CAME TO TALK ABOUT TODAY. OKAY. FEES. COUNCILOR DENTON, ARE YOU UNDER ANY TIME CONSTRAINTS ON THIS? UH, YES. I MEAN, I GUESS GO AHEAD JUDGE, PLEASE. YES. UH, I WOULD JUST SAY, I'M SORRY. I'M JOSH , THE PROGRAM MANAGER HERE. UH, I WOULD JUST SAY, UM, THAT OUR TIMES CON CONSTRAINT IS FY 27. UM, WE'RE BOUND BY OUR MS FOUR PERMIT TO MEET REGULATORY COMPLIANCE. WE HAVE 85 POUNDS OF TOTAL PHOSPHORUS THAT WE NEED TO OFFSET, UM, TO MEET OUR GOALS, UM, THAT ARE MANDATED BY THE STATE. SO IF WE DO NOT MEET THOSE, UH, REQUIREMENTS, UH, WE WILL BE GIVEN A SEASON, SEASON DESIST LETTER. UM, CONSENT ORDER. CONSENT ORDER. SO THAT IS OUR TIMEFRAME. IT'S NOTHING IMMEDIATE, BUT IN TERMS OF 85 POUNDS OF PHOSPHORUS THAT NEED TO BE REDUCED, UH, THAT'S QUITE A LARGE TIMEFRAME TO PLAN, UM, AND DESIGN AND IMPLEMENT PROJECTS TO BE ABLE TO MEET THAT IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? EXACTLY. BUT [02:15:01] YOU NEED THE FUNDING FOR THE PROJECTS. YES. CORRECT. YES. SO I'M NOT TRYING TO BE DISRESPECTFUL NO MATTER WHAT. YEAH. EITHER YOU GET A LUMP SUM OF MONEY. I'M JUST, LEMME FIX MY TONE. EITHER YOU GET A LUMP SUM OF MONEY TO FIX YOUR PROJECTS IMMEDIATELY, OR EITHER IT'S STILL GONNA COME IN THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE. CORRECT? YES. SO, WHICH MEANS YOU WON'T GET FUNDS UNTIL JULY. YEAH, I'M NOT TRYING TO, I'M GONNA GET SURE. I'M NOT HOLDING YOU UP. SO EITHER WAY IT GOES, UNLESS COUNSEL GIVES YOU A CHECK FOR X AMOUNT OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS YES. YOU'RE GONNA BE WAITING TILL JULY TO GET ANY FUNDS. RIGHT. SO IF YOU WAIT TILL THE BUDGET PROCESS, I'M NOT TRYING, I'M TRYING TO REALLY GET CLARITY. IT'S NOT GONNA, IT'S NOT GONNA BE A DIFFERENCE IS IT? IT? NO, IT WILL DOLLARS BEHIND. YEAH. SO YOU SAID WHAT? SAY WHAT? WE GET A MILLION DOLLARS BEHIND. YES. A MILLION DOLLARS BEHIND WHAT? BUT YOU'LL BE A MILLION DOLLARS BEHIND AND YOU DON'T HAVE MONEY FOR A MILLION DOLLARS. CORRECT. NOT HAVING COLLECTED IT YET AND NOT HAVING IT TO SPEND ON A PROJECT MAY LAST YEAR. BUT THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING. YOU STILL NOT BE APPROPRIATE A MILLION, UNLESS COUNSEL GIVES YOU A MILLION DOLLARS, YOU'RE STILL NOT GONNA HAVE A MILLION DOLLARS TO SPEND. SO HOW MUCH MONEY WILL YOU BE COLLECT WITHIN A PERIOD OF DOLLARS A MONTH? STILL NOT GONNA REACH THAT GOAL. YOU'RE STILL NOT GONNA REACH THE GOAL IF, EVEN IF WE IMPLEMENTED WHAT YOU WERE REQUESTING TONIGHT, MS. AT $4 A MONTH FROM EVERY HOUSEHOLD. THANK YOU. I'M SORRY. THANK YOU. NOT, IT'S NOT DEBATABLE. DOES I PUT A TABLE ON THE TABLE? OH, OKAY. ALRIGHT. UH, ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON. NO. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. YES. WHAT ARE WE KNOWING? I MEAN, WHAT NOT WHAT ARE WE KNOWING? THIS TABLING TO TABLE. UH, THIS UNTIL THE BUDGET SESSION. TO THE BUDGET SESSION. SO THIS IS NOT NO CHAIR. MR. TAYLOR. MM-HMM . AND VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. I CAN'T HEAR COUNCILOR DENTON? NO. COUNCILOR PALAM. YES. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. IF, IF WE'RE TABLING IT, WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT LATER. WE'RE GOING TO STILL DISCUSS IMPLEMENTING THIS LATER. YEAH. NO, THE MOTION. WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT LATER. NO. COUNCILOR JOINER? NO. MOTION FAILS. FOUR TO THREE. OKAY. IS THERE A MOTION TO REDUCE THE 90% INDUSTRIAL CREDIT DOWN TO 20%? SO MOVED. SO, AND DIDN'T YOU SAY SOMETHING ABOUT THE TECH? YOU SEPARATE? YEAH. UH, YEAH, THEY'RE GONNA BE, YEAH. SEPARATE MOTIONS. WHO'S MAKING THE MOTION? UH, HER COUNCILOR JOINER. IS THERE A SECOND? ME? OKAY. UH, COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PART? YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILOR DENTON? NO. COUNCILOR PALOLO? YES. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILOR JOINER? YES. MOTION. MOTION PASSES. SIX TO ONE. UM, IS THERE A MOTION TO REMOVE THE MONTHLY STORM WATER FEE FROM THE UTILITY BILLING TO THE REAL ESTATE TAXES? SECOND. ALL RIGHT. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? YES. OKAY. I'VE GOT ONE QUESTION. OKAY. IF YOU MOVE IT TO THE REAL ESTATE TAXES MM-HMM . THIS IS ONLY GOING TO AFFECT THE HOMEOWNERS. MM-HMM . NOT THE RENTALS. CORRECT. THE OWNER OF THE ACTUAL ASSET. RIGHT. BUT I MEAN, IT'S STILL SOMETHING THEY USE THE ROADS AND ALL OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE, THE RENTALS WILL USE THAT. HOPEWELL HAS ABOUT 50% RENTALS. MM-HMM . SO YOU ARE PUTTING A BIG BURDEN ON YOUR HOMEOWNERS. YOU GET TAX CREDITS. I MEAN, YOU'RE JUST DUMPING ON THE HOMEOWNERS EXPENSE. YOU GET TAX CREDIT FOR ACTUALLY, I MEAN, I THINK THESE, THE, THE RENTERS DESERVES TO TAKE SOME OF THIS TOO, WHICH WE DON'T, THE HOMEOWNER WOULD HAVE THE OPTION TO PASS THAT COST OF, ALL RIGHT. THAT RENT WILL INCREASE IF THEY WANT. THEY DO THAT WITH THE OTHER UTILITY FEES. SOMETIMES WHEN IT'S PACKAGED AS A, A RENT COST AND IT'S ALL UTILITIES INCLUDED OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT, YOU'RE TYPICALLY BURYING THOSE COSTS FOR UTILITIES WITHIN THAT COST. BUT ARE YOU GOING TO GET AS MUCH, THIS, THIS, UM, THESE CHARTS THAT YOU SHOWED US, THE INCOME THAT WILL BE COMING IN AT $8, IS THAT BASED ON EVERYBODY PAYING IT OR JUST THE HOMEOWNERS THAT MAKES NO, SO [02:20:01] THE WAY THAT THIS FEE IS STRUCTURED IS OFF OF ERU. IT'S A RESIDENTIAL UNIT. RIGHT. SO THE FEE IS ATTACHED TO A STRUCTURE. UM, AND SO THAT'S HOW THAT WILL WORK. RIGHT NOW, THE, THE BILLING GOES TO WHOEVER THE OCC, IT GOES TO THE MAILBOX, WHOEVER THE OCCUPANT IS. RIGHT. IF IT WAS ATTACHED TO THE REAL ESTATE TAX, IT WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE BILLED TO THE HOMEOWNER, THE ACTUAL HOMEOWNER. NOW, WHETHER OR NOT THE HOMEOWNER DECIDES TO, TO PAY THAT OR INCREASE THEIR RENT, $4. OKAY. THAT IS TOTALLY UP TO THEM. BUT THAT'S ON THEM, NOT ON US. UM, AND THE PERSON WHO IS THE OWNER OF THE ASSET IS LIABLE FOR THE GAINS FROM THAT ASSET AND THE STORMWATER, UH, INFILTRATION. THAT DOESN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THEIR ASSET. I, AND SO, LIKE AN INVESTOR WHO OWNS AN APARTMENT, HE WILL PAY, HE OR SHE THE CORPORATION, THEY WILL PAY BASED ON OWNING. THERE'S A, YEAH, THERE'S A, THERE'S A 50 APARTMENTS, THERE'S THERE, THERE'S, YEAH, THERE'S A BILLING FOR APARTMENTS. THERE'S A BILLING FOR INDUSTRY, AND THERE'S A BILLING FOR INDIVIDUAL. AND THEN THEY RAISED THE RENT OF THEIR PEOPLE. YEAH, I I WOULD ASSUME SO. AND THEN THERE'S A BILLING FOR SINGLE FAMILY UNITS. IT'S A MERRY-GO-ROUND. SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S A COMPLICATED SYSTEM, BUT IT, IT WORKS. THE, THE, HOW THE BILLING IS ASSIGNED IS ACTUALLY PRETTY SMART AND EFFICIENT. OKAY. UH, COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY, IF YOU, IF YOU PULL OUT YOUR PHONE, UH, COUNSELOR DENTON OR YOUR COMPUTER RENTAL INCREASE HAS GONE UP IN VIRGINIA BY 4.1% IN 2024. I THINK THAT 4.1% OF THE AVERAGE COST IS ALREADY TREMENDOUSLY RAISED ENOUGH FOR THE OWNERS OF THAT RENTAL PROPERTY TO TAKE CARE OF THAT EXTRA $4 FEE A MONTH. JUST FYI. OKAY. ANY I YOU DO IT. OKAY. VICE MAYOR GORE, WHEN, WHEN IS THE ASK FOR THIS TO TAKE EFFECT ON THE NEXT REAL ESTATE BILL? ON THE NEXT, THE NEXT ONE. AND THAT CAN BE PROCESSED BY THEN. THE NEXT REAL ESTATE FIELD IS JUNE. JUNE. JUNE, JUNE. YEAH. I'M THINKING, I'M THINKING I'M SORRY. WE GOT PLENTY OF TIME. I WAS THINKING SOMETHING DIFFERENTLY AT THINK WHAT WAS DUE NOW. I'M SORRY. PERSONAL PROPERTY NEXT. YES. I HAD A MIXED UP. OKAY. THANK YOU. OKAY. CALL FOR THE ROLL CALL. LET'S JUST GET THIS ONE ROLL CALL. UM, BEFORE ROLL CALL. I, WHO SECONDED THE MOTION? UH, THE MOTION WAS MADE BY, I THINK IT WAS, UH, COUNCIL, WAS IT YOU? OKAY. AND THEN I THINK COUNSELOR JOINER SECONDED IT. OR WAS IT YOU COUNCILOR HARRIS? NO, I, THERE JOINER WAS ME. OKAY. COUNCILOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON. YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON. YES. COUNCILLOR PELLUM. YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY. YES. COUNCILOR JOYNER. YES. MOTION PASSES. SEVEN TO ZERO. OKAY. ALRIGHT, MR. WARD. SO DOMESTIC, THIS REMAINS RESOLVED. OKAY. MR. MAYOR, VICE MAYOR, MEMBERS OF COUNCIL, UH, TONIGHT'S PUBLIC HEARING, UH, RELATES TO CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT REQUESTS. IT'S A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING ON NON-CONFORMING LOT PARCEL 0 2 7 0 2 4 0, LOCATED ON BANK STREET. THE APPLICANT IS VALUE CORPS OF LLC, AND THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY IS LOCATED IN WARD ONE. UM, ACTUALLY IT'S IN THE HISTORIC CITY POINT DISTRICT, UH, WHICH THE ZONING THERE IS TH ONE. THE REQUEST IS TO BUILD A NEW SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING. AND, UH, THIS PUBLIC HEARING WAS ADVERTISED PROPERLY. UH, HERE'S SOME MAPS FOR YOU ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, GENERAL LOCATION, AND THEN ON THE RIGHT, UH, IS THE SPECIFIC PROPERTY. THIS IS AN, AN OLDER AERIAL THAT SHOWS, UM, AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE AND SOME FENCING AND SOME, UH, VEGETATION THAT'S NO LONGER THERE. THE LOTS, UH, A CLEARED LOT. THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE IN TH ONE IS 80 FEET WIDE, 12,000 SQUARE FEET. UM, THIS PROPERTY ON BANK STREET IS 38 FEET WIDE AND 2,470 SQUARE FEET. HOWEVER, IT'S ESSENTIALLY THE SAME EXACT SIZE AS THE PARCEL NEXT DOOR THAT HAS A HISTORIC HOUSE ON IT. UH, THE NON-CONFORMITY WITH THIS PARTICULAR [02:25:01] PARCEL IS BOTH IN THE WIDTH AND THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE. UM, MOVING QUICKLY HERE, THAT'S A, UH, A PICTURE OF THE FRONT ELEVATION OF THE PROPOSED HOUSE. SINGLE STORY HOUSE. UH, IT'S A ONE STORY DWELLING, THREE BEDROOM, TWO BATH, 1000, UH, 56 SQUARE FEET FLOOR PLAN THERE. SIDE ELEVATIONS, UM, TH ONE DISTRICT IS OUR CITY POINT HISTORIC DISTRICT. SO IT DOES, IN OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, IT ACTUALLY CALLS FOR LENIENCY WITH THINGS LIKE YARD SIZES, SETBACKS, LOT SIZES, THAT, THAT SORT OF THING. AND THAT'S BASED PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF ITS HISTORIC NATURE. AND ITS, UH, NATURAL AND ORGANIC DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS HAVE OCCURRED OVER TIME. THE APPLICANT THIS EVENING, SHE HAS ALREADY RECEIVED ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD APPROVAL FOR THE HOUSE DESIGN AS I SHOWED IT TO YOU. AND, UH, BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS APPROVAL FOR VARIANCE TO THE YARD REQUIREMENTS. UM, THIS PROPOSED HOUSE PRETTY MUCH MIMICS THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY. UM, AND IT WOULD, AS IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE PAST, UH, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE CUP, UH, WITH THE ONE CONDITION THAT IT BE IN SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANCE WITH THE SET OF HOUSE PLANS AND MODIFICATIONS APPROVED BY THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD ON SEPTEMBER 4TH. WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY WRITTEN OR SPOKEN COMMENT IN REGARDS TO THIS APPLICATION. NO PUBLIC COMMENT WAS OFFERED AT THE PUBLIC HEARING AT PLANNING COMMISSION ON NOVEMBER 14TH. UH, PLANNING COMMISSION VOTED THREE TO ZERO TO APPROVE WITH THE SAME CONDITION THAT STAFF WAS RECOMMENDING THE APPLICANT'S HERE THIS EVENING. IF YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS, UM, AND I AM ALSO AVAILABLE. OKAY. UH, COUNCILLOR JOYNER. YEAH, I, I HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE, UM, SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANCE. YES, MA'AM. UM, YEAH. THAT, THAT, UM, BOTHERED ME A LITTLE BIT. UM, WHAT EXACTLY DOES SUBSTANTIAL CONFORMANCE MEAN IN TERMS VISUALLY, IN TERMS OF THE AESTHETICS? IT MEANS THAT THE HOUSE HAS PRESENTED YES. IN THESE DRAWINGS IS HOW THE HOUSE MUST BE BUILT. OKAY. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S ALL I LANGUAGE, THAT'S ALL THAT MEANS. ALRIGHT. ALRIGHT. THAT'S, AND OF COURSE, ANY DEVIATIONS IF THEY WERE TO COME, WOULD HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE A RB AND IF IT'S SUBSTANTIAL ENOUGH WHERE IT AFFECTS THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT WOULD HAVE TO COME BEFORE YOU AGAIN AS WELL. OKAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. I CHARMING. OKAY. ALRIGHT. WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING. PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW OPEN. UM, I DON'T HAVE ANYONE SIGNED UP FOR THIS S ONE TONIGHT. IS THERE ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK TO THIS? MAY I PARTNER? I HAVE ONE WRITTEN IN PUBLIC COMMENT. YOU DO. OKAY. FROM MS. DEBBIE RANDOLPH. DEAR MAYOR, PART IN THE CITY COUNCIL, I AM DEBBIE RANDOLPH, RESIDENT OF WARD ONE. THANK YOU FOR ALLOWING MY THOUGHTS TO BE READ TO RECORD DURING THIS PUBLIC HEARING. I AM OPPOSED TO THE BUILDING OF A SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING ON BANK STREET AS ADVERTISED FOR TWO SPECIFIC REASONS. ONE, THE SIZE OF THE HOME BEING LESS THAN 1100 SQUARE FEET. THE SAME COMPANY OWNS THE RENTAL HOUSE NEXT DOOR, AND I DO NOT KNOW OF ANY IMPROVEMENTS THEY HAVE RECENTLY MADE TO THE EXISTING HOME TO IMPROVE IT, OR ITS LI LIVABILITY. THE CITY OWNS THE LARGE LIVES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE PROPOSED BILL AND COULD POTENTIALLY SEE A BETTER DEVELOPMENT IN THE POINT BY PUTTING THAT LAND UP FOR SALE AND ALLOWING FOR SEVERAL HOMES TO BE BUILT OF LARGER SQUARE FOOTAGE. THIS WOULD ADDITIONALLY ALLOW FOR, FOR ON PROPERTY PARKING AND A BETTER SOLUTION OF BANK STREET PARKING QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY. AND TWO, THE LACK OF PARKING ON BANK STREET IS A BIG ISSUE FOR THOSE RESIDENTS. AND NOW WE ARE PROPOSING ADDING ONE OR MORE CARS TO THE CURRENT ISSUE. NO FIRE TRUCK CAN GET THROUGH BANK STREET CURRENTLY, AND THIS IS PUT IN THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE TO BUILD AND THEN DO SOMETHING ABOUT PARKING. WE SHOULD RESPECT OUR HISTORIC AREA AND SURROUNDS WITH QUALITY HOUSING AND BETTER AMENITIES. THANKS. OKAY. I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALRIGHT. AT THIS TIME, IS THERE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE CUP, UH, AS PRESENTED WITH CONDITIONS TO MOVE? SECOND. OKAY. MOTIONS BEEN MADE BY COUNCILLOR PALAM AND SECONDED BY VICE MAYOR GORE. ANY DISCUSSION, UH, COUNCILLOR HARRIS AND THEN COUNCILLOR JOYNER, THE STATEMENT THAT WAS READ BY OKAY. BY MS. RANDOLPH IN REGARDS TO BANK STREET WILLIAMS, RANDOLPH? NO. THE STATEMENT THAT WAS READ BY, OH, MS. RANDOLPH MM-HMM . JUST NOW? YEAH. JUST NOW MM-HMM . IS IT ANY TRUTH TO WHAT SHE'S SAYING? UH, WHAT, WHICH PARTS ABOUT THE FIRE TRUCKS CAN'T GET DOWN THERE AND, UM, I THINK FIRE [02:30:01] TRUCKS HAVE MORE OF AN ISSUE WITH THE TURNING RADIS TO GETTING ONTO BANK STREET FROM PRINCE HENRY. AND THEN BECAUSE OF THE PARKING SITUATION ALONG BANK STREET, UM, IT WOULD BE DIFF BECAUSE CARS CAN PARK ON BOTH SIDES, CHANGE, IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE FOR A FIRE ENGINE TO GO DOWN BANK STREET FOR THOSE TWO REASONS. NOW, WE'VE MET STAFF HAS MET WITH PUBLIC WORKS ON SITE OVER THERE, AND THAT OCCURRED, UM, EARLY IN THIS PROCESS, UH, TO TALK ABOUT SOME OPTIONS THAT MIGHT BE AVAILABLE FOR NO PARKING ON ONE SIDE OR RESTRICTING PARKING TO JUST ONE SIDE OF THE STREET. UM, THAT MIGHT MAKE IT EASIER FOR A FIRE ENGINE TO GET THROUGH. UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW THE STATUS OF PUBLIC WORKS, UM, INSTALLING THE SIGNAGE OVER THERE, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU. CAN THEY DO THAT? HOLD ONE SECOND. UH, C IS HE FINISH? UH, NO. I WAS, I USED TO LIVE ON BANK STREET AND IN, IN ONE OF THE TOWN HOMES. YES. MM-HMM . AND I KNOW WE COULD POP ON ON ONE SIDE WHEN I WAS LIVING THERE. OF COURSE, WE NEVER HAD AN INCIDENT WHERE A FIRE TRUCK CAME WHILE I WAS LIVING THERE. BUT, UM, I WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, I JUST, MY CONCERN IS SAFETY SURE. A SAFETY ISSUE IN REGARDS TO THE, IS IT, IS IT CLEAR FOR SAFETY? UH, THERE WAS A FIRE IN ONE OF THE TOWN HOMES, BUT IT WAS ON THE PRINCE HENRY END AND THEY OF COURSE WERE ABLE TO, TO FIGHT IT. THEY ARE FROM PRINCE HENRY. UH, I, I DON'T WANT TO MINIMIZE YOUR CONCERN. IT, IT IS A REAL ISSUE WITH FIRE TRUCKS, BUT THEY, THEY CAN RUN HO THEY HAVE AND CAN RUN HOSES, BUT THEY'D HAVE TO RUN 'EM FROM EITHER THE PRINCE HENRY SIDE OR FROM THE MAPLEWOOD SIDE. THEY'RE NOT COMING DOWN BANK STREET. RIGHT, RIGHT. THEY, EVEN IF THEY DID, THEY COULDN'T MAKE THAT TURN ONTO ST. JAMES TO GET OUT BACK TO MAPLEWOOD. YOU KNOW, THAT'S A VERY TIGHT TURN. THAT IS NOT A REAL LONG STREET. RIGHT. THERE'S EVEN ISSUES TODAY WITH, WITH, UM, EITHER GARBAGE PICKUP GETTING THROUGH THERE. OKAY. SO IT'S, IT'S NOT AN UNFOUNDED CONCERN. IT IS DEFINITELY A CONCERN, BUT THE FACT THAT THE CITY DOES OWN THAT LARGE PARCEL THAT'S VACANT OUT FRONT, THERE IS OPPORTUNITY TO CREATE A BETTER SITUATION ALONG THAT STREET. IT'S JUST INCUMBENT UPON THE CITY TO DO THAT. OKAY. THANK YOU. YES, SIR. UH, COUNCILOR JOYNER, HOLLOWAY, AND THEN PELHAM. YES. YEAH, I, I, I DID WANNA SPEAK TO THE, SOME OF THE COMMENTS AND ONE IS TO, TO REINFORCE THIS ISSUE OF PARKING IN THIS AREA. YEAH. I MEAN, MR. WARD CAN SPEAK TO THE FACT THAT I HAVE BEEN ADAMANT FOR A DECADE OR MORE ABOUT PARKING ON THAT IN THAT AREA. AND THE, THE ISSUE THERE WAS A SERIOUS ISSUE WITH THE FIRE TRUCK BEING ABLE TO MAKE THE TURN EARLIER IN THE YEAR WHEN THERE WAS A FIRE. UH, NOW THOSE, THOSE, SOME OF MY CONCERNS WERE MINIMIZED, BUT, UM, IT WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE TRUCK TO GET ALL THE WAY DOWN. AND WE HAVE DISCUSSED ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, BUT NOTHING EVER SEEMS TO HAPPEN. AND, UH, WITH, UH, PARKING ALONG ON MAPLEWOOD JAMES AND BANK. AND I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT UPON, UM, PUBLIC WORKS AND, UH, PERHAPS WHAT ARE THE SAFETY, I THINK IT IS, IS INCUMBENT TO HAVE SOMEBODY REPORT BACK TO THIS COUNCIL, UM, ABOUT THAT WHOLE SITUATION. UH, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S LIKE, OH, WE'RE GONNA DO THIS, WE'RE DO THAT. AND THIS IS GOING BACK PROMISES FOR YEARS AND NOTHING EVER HAPPENS. AND I THINK MAYBE THIS IS THE TIME TO HAVE SOME KIND OF CONCRETE ACTION TAKEN. UH, AND IF IT DOES INVOLVE, UM, USING THAT, THAT AREA, THE LAND THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT, THAT THE CITY OWNS TO, YOU KNOW, ALLOCATING THAT SPACE FOR SOME PARKING, THEN MAYBE WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IT, PARTICULARLY AS WE LOOK AT THE, UM, PARKING THAT MIGHT BE NECESSARY FOR SHILOH LODGE. SO THERE ARE SOME SECONDARY CONCERNS, BUT IT'S A REAL PROBLEM WHEN, WHEN THE, WHEN THE TRASH TRUCK CANNOT GET TO THE CANS BECAUSE OF THE AUTOMATED SITUATION, WE HAVE A PROBLEM AND WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING. WE CAN'T JUST BRUSH IT ASIDE. BUT I I, I DO SUPPORT THIS, UH, I THINK THIS, THIS, UM, HOUSE IS GREAT. AND I WILL SAY THAT THE PROPERTY OWNER HAS DONE A GREAT JOB ON THE HOUSE THAT IS, THAT THEY CURRENTLY OWN. AND IT'S CHARMING AND IT'S A, A CHARMING LITTLE BUNGALOW. AND AS WE ALL KNOW, THE CITY POINT HISTORIC DISTRICT IS AN ECLECTIC DISTRICT. IT IS NOT FULL OF JUST PERIOD HOUSES OF THE 18TH OR 19TH CENTURY. THIS IS AN EARLY 20TH CENTURY DWELLING. AND I THINK IT'S CHARMING AND CERTAINLY SUPPORT THE CONSTRUCTION OF IT, BUT IT DOES [02:35:01] RAISE SERIOUS PARKING ISSUES THAT I THINK MAYBE NEED TO BERE ADDRESSED AT THIS TIME. MM-HMM . ALRIGHT. UH, COUNCILOR HOLLOWING, UH, I MEAN, HOUSE LOOKS GREAT AND EVERYTHING, BUT I MEAN, MY, I WOULD, IF THEY CAN'T GET DOWN THERE ALREADY, WHILE, WHILE WE, UH, BUILDING THE PROPERTY DOWN THERE, THAT'S GOING TO ONLY INCREASE THE ISSUE. THIS CARS CAN GET DOWN THE STREET. YEAH. NOT, NOT THE CAR. I'M TALKING ABOUT IF SOMETHING HAPPENED, IF AN EMERGENCY HAPPENED, SOME CHILD OR ANYBODY, ELDERLY PERSON, ANYBODY, AND ALREADY CAN'T GET THEIR FIRE INTO DOWN THERE, WHY ARE WE SUPPORTING TO, IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF STAFF. IT'S AS SIMPLE, IT'S AS SIMPLE AS LITERALLY SAYING NO PARKING ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET. IT IS AS SIMPLE AS THAT. AS MR. HARRIS SAID WHEN HE LIVED THERE, THERE WAS ONLY PARKING. NOW THEY'VE ALLOWED PARKING ON BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET IS AS SIMPLE AS MAKING A COUPLE OF LITTLE SECTIONS ONE WAY AND REDUCING PARKING FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE STREET TO ONE SIDE THE STREET. IS IT POSSIBLE THE POINT OF ORDER TO ADD THAT? WHAT'S YOUR POINT OF ORDER? SORRY, I INTERRUPTED SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, IT IS LATE. I WAS TRYING TO MAKE SURE STAFF CAN GET THEIR STUFF DONE. SO WE HAVEN'T DID A PUBLIC HEARING YET. WE HAVEN'T PUT A MOTION ON FORCE. IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS OF STAFF, SO WE CAN GO TO THE PUBLIC HEARING, THEN GO BACK TO MOTIONS AND DISCUSSION AND VOTING. I THOUGHT IT WAS QUESTION. NO, LISTEN. OTHER ONE FOR DISCUSSION. I'M SORRY. IT IS, IT WAS, SHE ALMOST LIKE, DID WE I LOST TRACK. YEAH, ME TOO. CALL FOR THE VOTE. SO MY QUESTION, MY QUESTION IS, YOU HAVE FOR THE, IT'S THE SAME THING WHERE YOU WOULD HAVE TO START BACK OVER IF WE, IF WE ATE IN THERE THE PARKING ON ONE SIDE OF THE STREET. I MEAN, 'CAUSE I WOULD JUST HATE FOR IT TO GO DORMANT AND SOMETHING HAPPENED. I MEAN, YOU CAN SET IT AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL, BUT I, I WOULD CAUTION AGAINST THAT BECAUSE YOU'RE TYING A CITY ACTION TO THE APPROVAL OF A, OF A PRIVATE PROPERTY APPLICANT HERE. UM, NO, I'M SAYING CAN WELL, CAN WE, ARE WE, CAN WE MAKE AN ADDITIONAL MOTION TONIGHT TO, TO, TO TAKE CARE OF THAT ISSUE? I WOULD JUST HATE FOR THIS TO GO UP AND THEN IT END UP SURE. I THINK ABSOLUTELY SOMETHING HAPPENS. ABSOLUTELY. YOU COULD DO THAT. ALRIGHT, SO THEN I, I, I, I DIGRESS. I'LL APPROVE THIS AND THEN WE CAN GO TO THAT MM-HMM . YEP. LET'S, LET'S VOTE ON THE CUP FIRST SO WE HAVE A CALL TO THE VOTE ON THE FLOOR. CALL TO THE MOTION. IS THERE ANY OBJECTIONS? I, I OBJECT. WHAT IS THE THING YOU WANNA ADD TO THE MOTION? SO, NO, WE ARE NOT ADDING TO THIS MOTION. NO, BUT YOU CAN DO IT AT ONE TIME. SO WE CAN SET UP NO, HE SAID NO VOTE. HE SAID DON'T EDIT TO THIS BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T SET IT AS PUT IT ON. YOU CAN'T SET IT AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL IS WHAT I CAN, BUT I WAS COMMENDING. IT'S JUST GONNA BE A QUICK, EASY SECOND VOTE. GO AHEAD. ALRIGHT. ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PART? YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON. NO. COUNCILLOR PALAM. YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY. YES. COUNCILLOR JOYNER. YES. MOTION PASSES. SIX TO ONE. OKAY. ADDITIONAL MOTION? UH, UH, I MAKE A MOTION THAT WE DIRECT THE CITY MANAGER TO GET REPUBLIC WORKS, TO MAKE NOTIFY THE WHATEVER PROCESS IT IS TO NOTIFY THE CITIZENS THAT THAT STREET WOULD BE ONE WAY AT SOME POINT FOR THIS HOUSE. ONE WAY IT'S ONE WAY. PARKING. HOW MANY IN PARK PARKING ON ONE SIDE, BUT, YOU KNOW, GO THROUGH TRANSPORTATION. WE HAVE A TRANSPORTATION BOARD THAT SHOULD BE LOOKING AT THE STUFF LIKE THIS. SO, I MEAN, ACTIVATE YOUR TRANSPORTATION BOARD OR GET WITH STAFF TO DO OR SOMETHING COULD, COULD, YEAH. FRIENDLY AMENDMENT TO HAVE THE TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD TO LOOK AT THAT ENTIRE BLOCK. RIGHT. QUARTER, THE WHOLE, THAT WHOLE QUARTER SURROUNDING WHAT WE KNOW AS THE MAPLEWOOD APARTMENTS AND THE BALTIMORE ROAD FROM JAMES PRINCE HENRY. UM, BANK AND MAPLEWOOD A SECOND. AND WHAT'S, WHAT STAFF COORDINATES TRANSPORTATION AND SAFETY. WHO'S THE STAFF THAT'S ON THAT BOARD? PROBABLY THAT WOULD BE OUT OF SOMEBODY IN PUBLIC WORKS. OKAY. YEAH. MAKE SURE THAT, YEAH. ME. IT'S PROBABLY THE DIRECTOR, FRANKLIN MEMBER IS IS A SECOND? YES, MA'AM. I, YES SIR. I'LL SECOND. OKAY. MOTIONS BEEN MADE BY COUNCILLOR PAL AND SECONDED BY COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NO LIGHTS ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON? YES. MY VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILLOR POWELL? YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILLOR JOYNER? YES. MOTION PASSES. SEVEN TO ZERO. MAY I PARDON? MAY I PARDON? YEAH, THIS WAS A MOTION FOR THE ACTUAL PUBLIC HEARING. THE MOTION BEFORE THAT WAS FOR THE CALL FOR THE VOTE, CORRECT? NO, THERE WAS NO ONE OBJECTED [02:40:01] TO THE CALL TO VOTE, SO WE JUST WENT STRAIGHT TO THE VOTE. OKAY. SO THEN THERE WAS A PUBLIC HEARING. WAS PUBLIC HEARING TWO WAS THE FIRST VOTE, AND THEN THIS VOTE THAT WE JUST FOR THE AMENDMENT. YEAH. SECOND VOTE WAS FOR STAFF AND TO GO TO THE TRANSPORTATION BOARD ABOUT LOOKING AT THAT WHOLE AREA AND, UH, REDUCING THE PARKING ON ONE SIDE OF EACH OF THE STREETS, BASICALLY. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. SO, IT'S OKAY. PUBLIC HEARING NUMBER THREE. ALRIGHT. UH, THIRD AND FINAL PUBLIC HEARING. TONIGHT'S, UH, THIRD PUBLIC HEARING IS A REZONING REQUEST AS IT RELATES TO 26 10 CITY POINT ROAD, UH, ALSO IDENTIFIED AS PARCEL 0 1 4 0 0 1 5. THE REQUEST IS TO CHANGE THE ZONING OF THIS SPECIFIC PROPERTY FROM R TWO RESIDENTIAL, WHICH IS A MEDIUM DENSITY DISTRICT TO B TWO LIMITED COMMERCIAL. I'LL JUST NOTE, UH, PLANNING COMMISSION HELD PUBLIC HEARING ON THIS APPLICATION ON OCTOBER 3RD. THE APPLICANT IS, UM, MS. LISA BROWN. THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY IS LOCATED INWARD. ONE EXISTING ZONING IS R TWO, AND THE REQUESTED ZONING IS TO B TWO. NOT IS IT NOT ONE? IT'S NOT ONE, IT'S THREE. I'M SORRY. IT'S THREE'S. OKAY. UH, AND ALL ADVERTISEMENTS WERE PLACED IN THE NEWSPAPER AND ADJACENT PROPERTY OWNERS NOTIFIED. UM, SO ON THE LEFT, THE GENERAL LOCATION MAP ON THE RIGHT, THE SPECIFIC, UH, AERIAL OF THE PROPERTY MAP, THIS, UH, PARTICULAR PROPERTY IS LOCATED AGAIN ALONG CITY POINT ROAD. IT'S ADJACENT TO A CHURCH, THIS MINE. SO IN R TWO, THE ALLOWABLE USES ARE CHURCHES, SCHOOLS, AND THIS IS OF COURSE, IN ADDITION TO RESIDENTIAL USE. CHURCHES, SCHOOLS, FIRE AND RESCUE SQUADS, PARKS PLAYGROUNDS, MEMBER OWNED RECREATIONAL FACILITIES AND KINDERGARTENS AND DAYCARE CENTERS. AND IN THE B TWO LIMITED COMMERCIAL, THAT PARTICULAR DISTRICT HAS 65, CURRENTLY 65 ALLOWABLE USES THAT RANGE FROM COMMERCIAL TO INSTITUTIONAL TO MIXED USE. UM, USES MUST HAVE MINIMAL IMPACT ON SURROUNDING AREAS AND PROPERTIES WHEN LOOKING AT REZONING. AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THOSE 65 ALLOWABLE USES IN THE B TWO, UH, QUITE A FEW OF 'EM WOULD NOT BE APPROPRIATE FOR THIS PARTICULAR LOCATION AT 26 10 CITY POINT. SO WITH THAT, THE APPLICANT HAS OFFERED THE FOLLOWING PROFFERS AND IN THE FULL AND COMPLETE PROFFERS WERE IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT THREE PAGES LONG. UM, BUT I'VE TRIED TO HIT THE, THE MAJOR HIGHLIGHTS HERE. THE APPLICANT HAS OFFERED THE FOLLOWING TO RESTRICT THE ALLOWABLE USE IS PERMISSIBLE AT THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. SO PLEASE REMEMBER, IF THE REZONING IS APPROVED AND THE PROFFERS ARE APPROVED, THE PROFFER RUNS WITH THE LAND. SO EVEN IF THE CURRENT APPLICANT IS TO SELL THIS PROPERTY DOWN THE ROAD, THE NEW OWNER IS HELD THESE SAME RESTRICTIONS OFFERED IN THE PROFFERS. OKAY. UM, SO THE, AS YOU CAN SEE, THOSE, UH, LIMITED PERMISSIBLE USES, ALL OF THOSE ARE VERY LOW IMPACT USES AT THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION. UM, ANY OTHER USES THAT WOULD NORMALLY BE PERMITTED IN B TWO BUT ARE NOT INCLUDED AS PERMISSIBLE USES IN THE PROFFERS WOULD NOT BE PERMITTED. IN ADDITION, THE APPLICANT HAS OFFERED THE HOURS OF OPERATION TO BE FROM 7:00 AM TO 9:00 PM UM, THE ONE CHANGE THAT PLANNING COMMISSION ADDED TO, TO THAT IS TO ADD THE WORD ONLY. SO OPERATING ONLY BETWEEN 7:00 AM AND 9:00 PM MM-HMM . UH, YOU CAN SEE ALL DELIVERIES MADE DURING REGULAR BUSINESS HOURS. NO LIVE MUSIC DISC JOCKEY DANCING BILLIARDS, OR GAMES OF SKILL ARCADE GAMES, UM, ARE NOT PERMITTED LOADINGS PROHIBITED. UM, THE APPLICANT'S ALREADY UNDERTAKEN A RIGOR RIGOROUS LITTER CAMPAIGN. SHE'S ALREADY BEEN CLEANING UP THE PROPERTY AND CLEANING UP THE LANDSCAPING. SHE'S MADE SOME IMPROVEMENTS TO THE BUILDING ITSELF AS WELL AS THE PARKING LOT. UM, NO SPECIAL EVENTS OR CHARITABLE ACTIVITIES WILL OCCUR OUTSIDE THE BUILDING. UH, SHE'S LIMITED ON THE NEW SIGN. UH, ILLUMINATION IS NOT GONNA BE PERMITTED. UM, YOU CAN GO THROUGH ALL OF THESE, UH, BUT AGAIN, THESE ARE THE HIGHLIGHTS. ALL OF THESE WERE, ARE TO MINIMIZE ANY POTENTIAL IMPACTS ON NEIGHBORING PROPERTIES. STAFF SUPPORTS THE REZONING FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS. UH, WITH THE PROFFERS IN PLACE, UH, THE USE HERE IS SUPPORTING OR AS SUPPORTIVE OF TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN PRINCIPLES. [02:45:01] AND JUST AS A REFRESHER, THOSE PRINCIPLES MEAN WALKABLE NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE YOU CAN WALK TO CERTAIN AMENITIES, WHETHER IT'S A PARK OR A CHURCH OR A PERSONAL SERVICE OR A RESTAURANT. UM, TRADITIONAL NEIGHBORHOOD DESIGN PRINCIPLES ARE PROMOTED THROUGHOUT THE COMP PLAN. UH, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY IS ALSO LOCATED ON A MAJOR COLLECTOR ROAD. UM, THE CONVERSION OF THE PROPERTY TO RESIDENTIAL USE IS UNLIKELY. THE PROPERTY IS, AND I DON'T HAVE THIS ON HERE, BUT THE PROPERTY HAS, UH, OPERATED UNDER COMMERCIAL USE ALREADY, ALREADY BEEN DOING THAT. AND IT WOULD'VE BEEN, UM, NOT PERMITTED BY THE ORDINANCE. SO I'M NOT SURE HOW THOSE PARTICULAR USES WERE ABLE TO, UH, TO BE IN THAT PARTICULAR LOCATION. UH, THESE ARE, THAT'S AN OLDER PICTURE OF THE FRONT OF THE BUILDING. BUT JUST TO FAMILIARIZE YOURSELF WITH THE BUILDING ITSELF, AND AGAIN, THE, UH, REQUEST THAT APPLIES TO THE, THE BUILDING IN THE PARKING LOT BEHIND IT, UH, THE DEPARTMENT HAS RECEIVED ONE PHONE CALL AND TWO EMAILS AGAINST THE REZONING. UH, ONE EMAIL REQUESTING CONSIDERATION OF ADDITIONAL PROFFERS. ONE IN-PERSON COMMENT FROM A HOPEWELL RESIDENT IN SUPPORT OF THE REZONING. AND THAT OCCURRED AT THE, UH, PLAINTIFF COMMISSION PUBLIC HEARING. AND THEN THE APPLICANT, UH, WENT OUT AND OBTAINED SIGNATURES ON THE PETITION. THAT WAS ALSO INCLUDED IN YOUR AGENDA PACKET. AGAIN, STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE REQUEST SUBMITTED BY MS. BROWN TO REASON PARCEL 0 1 4 0 0 1 5 FROM R TWO TO B TWO LIMITED COMMERCIAL WITH THE SIGNED PROFFERS DATED SEPTEMBER 25TH, 2024, WHICH WERE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET. PLANNING COMMISSION WAS THE SAME. UH, THOSE SIGNED PROFFERS DATED THE SEPTEMBER, OR EXCUSE ME, THE MOST RECENT DATE OF NOVEMBER 25TH, INCLUDE THE AMENDMENTS REQUESTED BY PLANNING COMMISSION. I'M AVAILABLE FOR ANY QUESTIONS IF YOU HAVE ANY. THE APPLICANT, MS. BROWN IS ALSO HERE IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS FOR HER. OKAY. UH, COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY JOINER AND THEN MYSELF. WHY IS IT THAT I DON'T THINK THEY MEANT IN A, IN A RESTAURANT ALL THE SKILL GAMES AND STUFF I AGREE WITH, BUT WHY IN THE WORLD ARE WE PROHIBITING THE LAB MUSIC OR DANCING AND ALSO NO SPECIAL EVENTS OR CHARITABLE ACTIVITIES? WHY, WHY, WHY DO WE HAVE THOSE TWO THINGS IN? WE ARE TRYING TO BE COGNIZANT OF IMPACTS ON THE NEIGHBORHOOD MM-HMM. ITSELF, SURROUNDING PROPERTIES, THE CHURCH THAT'S ADJACENT, AND AGAIN, THESE ARE THE PROFFERS THAT THE APPLICANT HAS SIGNED AN OFFER. DID, DID CHURCH. WHAT, WHAT ABOUT A CHURCH? THERE'S A CHURCH THAT'S ADJACENT TO THIS PROPERTY RIGHT NEXT TO IT. WE DON'T, WE DON'T MAKE LAWS BASED ON CHURCH LOCATION THERE. RIGHT. I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT OF CHURCHES. I MEAN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE HAS TO DO WITH IMPACTS TO ADJACENT PROPERTIES. SO IF, IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH THE PARTICULAR PROPERTY, YOU, YOU CAN EASILY STRIKE THEM, UM, AND SAY YOU DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT IT AS A PROFFER. YEAH. I I THINK THEY, I I I DON'T THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE THERE. I MEAN, WE CAN, YOU CAN LIMIT THEN THE HOURS OF OPERATION. 7:00 AM TO 9:00 PM I I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT THE, THE LAB, I MEAN, PUT A, CHANGE THEIR PROPERTY TO SOMETHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, CONSIDERATION MAYBE, UH, TO HAVE A MINIMUM AT A TIME. IT'S HOUSES RIGHT THERE BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO YES. NEIGHBORHOOD. IT'S RIGHT ACROSS, JUST LIKE CAR BROTHERS IS RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD. CAR BROTHERS IS RIGHT NEXT TO A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOUSES. YEAH. BUT THEY DON'T DO SPECIAL EVENTS. YEAH. WHAT? WELL, A DJ, THE RESTAURANT. I THINK THE RESTAURANT HAD A DJ'S WHERE YOU GOING PUT 'EM IN THERE? YES. I DON'T KNOW. DJ COULD BE ABLE TO GO THERE. DJ IN THERE. I HAVE ANOTHER PROPERTY THAT IS COMMERCIAL. IT'S ON, I'M SORRY. NAME BROWN. HOW Y'ALL GOING? I WANT TO THANK A MOMENT AND EXPRESS MY SINCERE GRATITUDE TO THE CITIZENS AND HOPE WE CITY. I HAVE WORKED HARD TO CREATE A HIGH QUALITY RESTAURANT IN THIS AREA WITH MANY RENOVATIONS TOTALING $27,000. IF, AND, AND IF ANYONE HAD ANY FEEDBACKS, I HAVE WELCOMED ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE SURROUNDING AREA BY GETTING ADDITIONAL, UH, PETITIONS OF ALL THE WAY SURROUNDING WITHIN THE AREA OF THAT RESTAURANT, UH, ACROSS THE STREET, AROUND THE CORNER. I ALSO OWN A PROPERTY AT [02:50:01] 3 0 3. UH, WHAT, UM, THIRD AVENUE, WHICH IS ONLY YOU GOT RESIDENTIAL HOUSES ALL THE WAY AROUND THIS COMMERCIAL PROPERTY. THERE'S ONLY, UH, LIKE RIGHT WHEN MR. WARD IS SITTING AT MY COMMERCIAL PROPERTY, IS SITTING THERE AND IT DOES NOT HAVE ANY RESTRICTIONS. IT'S 32, UH, THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO WITH THAT PROPERTY. AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THIS PROPERTY AND THERE'S NO HOUSES ON THAT BLOCK IF YOU CAN SEE THE HOUSES ACROSS THE STREET, DOWN THE STREET, AROUND THE STREET AND SO FORTH. SO, UH, I DID QUESTION THAT AS WELL. UM, I'M A VERY RESPONSIBLE PERSON. I'VE GONE INTO AN AREA, I'VE DONE TOTAL RENOVATIONS TO THE PARKING LOT. I'VE ALSO ADDED, UH, UH, UH, BUILT A, UM, PRIVATE, UH, BRICK CONTAINER FOR THE COVER OF MY TRASH CANS. I HAVE TOTALLY IMPROVED, UH, THAT, UH, AREA DOWN THERE BY PUTTING IN FLOWERS, FLOWER BEDS, AND ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANT TO NAME. I'M VERY RESPECTFUL ABOUT WHAT I DO. I WANT TO BRING SOMETHING GOOD TO THE AREA, WHICH IS A SOUL FOOD RESTAURANT. I'VE ALSO CONSIDERED THAT THIS AREA IS A VERY NICE AREA AS WELL AS MY AREA THAT'S AT 3 0 3 NORTH THIRD AVENUE. AND, UH, I HAVE PROPERTIES THAT'S RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, THAT'S RESIDENTIAL. I HAVE A HOUSE THAT'S FIVE, UH, LIKE FIVE FEET FROM ME. THIS RESIDENTIAL, THERE'S NO RESTRICTIONS ON THAT PROPERTY AS WELL. AND THAT'S MORE CLOSER THAN THIS COULD EVER BE. SO, AND ALSO THE PROPERTY AT 3 0 3 NORTH THIRD STREET, IF YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR, IT IS DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET FROM DIABETES, UH, DIALYSIS. OKAY. THAT'S A VERY LIMITED AREA STREET AND VERY, A LOT OF RESTRICTIONS IN THAT AREA, BUT THERE'S NO RESTRICTIONS ON THAT BUILDING. SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, I'LL HAVE SO MANY RESTRICTIONS ON THIS BUILDING DOWN HERE AT CITY POINT, WHICH IS A OPEN AREA. THE STREET IS OPEN AND YOU HAVE A LOT OF TRAFFIC COMING DOWN THAT STREET. ALSO. UH, THIS PROPERTY AT 2016 WEST CITY POINT ROAD WAS ONCE A, A SMALL RESTAURANT EATERY BEFORE IT TURNED INTO THE LIONS CLUB. AND PRIOR TO THAT, THIS PROPERTY, UH, WAS A GYM WITH A LADDER, UH, AT, UH, CUSTOMERS COMING IN. WHEN I BOUGHT THE BUILDING, I HAD LIKE 30 CUSTOMERS COMING A DAY TO THIS PROPERTY. AND I HAD TO LET THEM KNOW THAT THE PROPERTY HAD BEEN SOLD TO ME. OKAY. THE PARKING LOT HAS BEEN, UM, RE RESEALED, RECODED AND STRIKED, UH, AT THE TIME THAT, UH, THE OTHER COMPANY HAD THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY. UH, THE PARKING LOT WASN'T, UH, UM, STRIKED AT ALL, BUT PEOPLE WERE PARKING IN IT. OKAY. SO I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I WORKED VERY HARD TO BE, UH, RESPONSIBLE ABOUT WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO DOWN THERE. I'VE, UH, ALSO BEEN ABLE TO, UH, UH, TO HIRE SOMEONE TO DO DELIVERY SO WE CAN KEEP THE TRAFFIC DOWN, UH, TO A MINIMUM OF HOW MANY PEOPLE MAY BE COMING IN TO EAT AT THIS PLACE. IT'S A SMALL BUILDING. I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE GONNA GET CRAZY WITH IT, BUT YOU ALL ARE WELCOME TO COME AND EAT IF YOU SO . I HAVE, I HAVE A, A QUICK QUESTION. UH, YOU WERE MENTIONING THE, UM, THE LIMITATIONS HERE IS THE PRO, IT SAYS PROFITS FROM THE APPLICANT IS THESE PREFERENCE FROM THE APPLICANT BASED UPON SUGGESTED INFORMATION AS FAR AS LIMITATIONS AND STUFF THAT WAS CONCERNED. FOR INSTANCE, AGAIN, THE LIVE MUSIC, THE DISC JOCKEY, AND THEN NO SPECIAL EVENTS AND CHARITABLE EVENTS AND SO FORTH. WELL, I'VE GOT PICTURES ON MY PHONE THAT SHOW THAT A LOT OF THE CHURCHES AND THE SO FORTH FOR COMMERCIAL BUSINESS IN THAT AREA HAVE, UH, OUT IN ALL THE TIME. NO, NO, NO, NO. I WAS ASKING, I WAS ASKING WAS WHAT WAS THE REASON? BECAUSE THIS SAYS THAT, THAT YOU SUGGESTED NOT TO HAVE THESE THINGS. NO, I HAVEN'T SUGGESTED ANY OF THE PROFITS. I WAS, I WAS, THOSE CONDITIONS WERE TOLD TO ME AND I WANTED TO, UH, I AGREED TO THEM. 'CAUSE I'M UNDER PRESSURE. I'VE GOT $27,000 INVEST YOU. IT WAS THAT WAY. SO I DON'T AGREE TO THESE PROFITS. I THINK IT IS VERY UNNECESSARY AND DISCRIMINATORY. UM, YES. SO IIII WILL NOT AGREE TO THOSE. I THINK IT IS VERY DISCRIMINATORY AND I FEEL LIKE THAT'S THE ONLY REASON THEY WOULD PUT IN THERE. SO I WOULD NOT, I I, I AGREE WITH YOU. I I FIGURED THAT IT PROBABLY YES, WAS KIND OF PASSED DOWN TO YOU. SO I DON'T SUGGEST THAT WE WILL MAKE THAT DECISION, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE BEEN IN LINE WITH YOUR OTHER PROPERTY AS A, AS A BUSINESS TO HAVE THOSE THINGS. IT'S REALLY LIMITING AS A SMALL BUSINESS, UM, IN THIS CITY AND ESPECIALLY A SOUL FOOD RESTAURANT TO TAKE OUT OF THOSE THINGS. ESPECIALLY, UM, THOSE, THOSE THINGS PARTICULARLY, UM, MATCH THE [02:55:01] AUDIENCE THAT YOU WOULD HAVE AS A SOUL FOOD RESTAURANT. UH, AND SO I THINK TO LIMIT YOUR BUSINESS IN THAT ACTION WOULD JUST LIMIT THE PROFIT THAT YOUR BUSINESS CAN HAVE THERE. I I STILL GO WITH NOT HAVING THE GAMES, GAMES OF SKILL, UM, THE, THE, THE BILLBOARDS OF GAMES OF SKILL SKILL, UH, BUT THAT PARTICULAR LIVE MUSIC AND DISC JOCKEY. AND I'LL ALSO PROFFER, UH, IF YOU HAVE THAT MUSIC THAT WE WOULDN'T EVEN NEED TO LIMIT THE, THE TIME, BECAUSE I THINK WE GOT A NOISE ORDINANCE ALREADY, BUT YOUR BUSINESS WILL BE CLOSING AT NINE O'CLOCK. SO I DON'T THINK THAT WOULD AFFECT THAT ANYWAY. NO. OH, NO. OKAY. UH, COUNCILOR JOYNER, MYSELF AND THEN COUNCILLOR DENTON. YEAH. UM, THIS, THIS PARTICULAR BUILDING PROBABLY STARTED ITS LIFE AS A, UM, A STORE, UH, MANY, MANY YEARS AGO. UM, I KNOW FOR PROBABLY THE LAST 50 IT STRUCK 50 OR 60 YEARS AGO, IT WAS USED AS A, IT WAS A DANCE STUDIO FOR MANY, MANY YEARS. UM, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM. I, I, I TEND TO DISAGREE. I, I AGREE WITH ALL THE PROFFERS THAT HAVE BEEN SET. I DON'T THINK, I THINK THAT THEY WERE APPROPRIATE, UM, FOR THE BUILDING GIVEN ITS LOCATION. UM, AND I WISH YOU GREAT LUCK IN THE, IN THE SOLE, AS A SOLE FOOD RESTAURANT. AND I, I CAN APPRECIATE, UM, I WAS WONDERING, UM, AND MAYBE THIS IS AN APPROPRIATE, BUT UM, CAN WE LOOK AT THE HISTORIC STATUS OF THAT BUILDING? GETTING IT, GETTING IT AS A, A SINGLE, IT DOES HAVE ARCHITECTURAL SIGNIFICANCE. I MEAN, IT'S AN OLD BUILDING. IT HAS THIS, THE GHOST SIGNAGE. I THINK THAT IT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE FOR DHR TO COME DOWN AND TAKE A LOOK AT IT. IT WOULDN'T AFFECT ANYTHING INSIDE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE WHEN FUTURE IMPROVEMENTS ARE MADE, OR JUST TO PRESERVE IT SO THAT NOT NECESSARILY YOU, BUT SOMEBODY ELSE COMES ALONG AND CHANGES THE EXTERIOR. I THINK IT, IT HAS ENOUGH SIGNIFICANCE TO BE LOOKED AT BY DHR, BUT I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WITH IT. BUT I, I WANT TO KEEP THE PROFFERS THE WAY THEY ARE. OKAY. THAT'S PROBLEM. OKAY. UM, YEAH, I'M ALONG WITH COUNCILOR JOYNER. UM, I WOULD RATHER SEE, YOU KNOW, ALL THESE PROFFERS IN THERE. UH, ONE BECAUSE THE FACT THAT IT IS A WELL ESTABLISHED NEIGHBORHOOD MM-HMM . AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IMPROVING HOUSING AND TAKING CARE OF OUR EXISTING HOUSING STOCK, YOU KNOW, WE, THE THING IS, LET'S SAY THAT YOU DO A BANG UP JOB. YOU, THIS IS A MARVELOUS LITTLE MOM AND POPS RESTAURANT. SOMEONE WANTS TO COME BY AND BUY IT OFF OF YOU, BUT THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME VISION THAT YOU HAVE. RIGHT. THAT'S WHY I THINK THESE PROFFERS ARE, YOU KNOW, IMPORTANT TO HAVE IN THERE BECAUSE THEY LIMIT PEOPLE BEHIND YOU COMING. UM, RIGHT. THE NOW, UM, I DID SUBMIT COMMENTS TO, UH, THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, YOU KNOW, ASKING FOR AN ADDITIONAL PROFFER IN THERE BECAUSE IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, THAT I MYSELF HAVE ASKED OF OTHER, UM, PEOPLE THAT COME BEFORE ASKING, IT WAS SIMILAR, UM, PROJECTS OF, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT SCOPES. AND THAT IS, YOU KNOW, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO PURCHASE ONE OF THE, UM, CAMERAS THAT WOULD TIE INTO THE CITY'S OVERALL, UM, CAMERA SYSTEM? NOT ONE OF THE LICENSE PLATE READERS, BUT ONE OF THE ACTUAL, UM, I DON'T KNOW, I DON'T THINK, WELL, SHE'S NOT PAYING ATTENTION. UM, BUT IT'S, UM, IT'S ONE THAT GOES WITH THE OVERALL CITY SYSTEM AND THAT YOU WOULD PAY THE CAPITAL UPFRONT COST AND THEN THE CITY PAYS THE ONGOING COST. WELL, I'VE ALREADY GOT CAMERAS INSTALLED AROUND THAT ENTIRE BUILDING, SO I WOULD FEEL LIKE THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, WITH ALL THE EXTRA STUFF THAT I'VE BEEN ASKED TO DO, AND I GO AROUND THERE AND THAT STUFF IS NOT DONE IN OTHER ESTABLISHMENTS, BUT IT'S THE SAME AS COMMERCIALS IN THAT SAME AREA. I WOULD FEEL THAT THAT IS THE COST THAT SHOULD BE TO THE CITY. IF YOU WANNA INSTALL IT ON MY BUILDING, I'M FINE WITH IT. RIGHT. I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT. BUT THAT, BUT THAT'S THE THING. YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN ASKED AND OTHER DEVELOPERS HAVE, YOU KNOW, BEEN WILLING TO PAY, UM, AS PART OF THEIR CONDITIONS. AND THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING YOU. YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, IT, IT, IT, THE CITY OF HOPEWELL HAS ALREADY COST ME A LOT OF MORE MONEY THAN I WANTED TO PAY OUT ON MY BUILDING. I I, I'VE ALSO BEEN, UH, ASKED TO, NOT TO DISTURB THE GO SIGN, BUT ALL OF THIS IS UNDER THE PROPHECY. I'M ONLY AGREEING TO ALL THIS IF THIS REZONING, IF THIS HAPPENS. RIGHT. AND I'M JUST, SO IF IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AND NONE OF THE RESTRICTIONS WILL GO FORWARD, IT IS JUST THAT I'VE GOT TO HAVE A LINE, A LIMIT SOMEWHERE WHERE I GOT [03:00:01] TO SAY NO TO SOME OF THIS STUFF. I MEAN, I WAS SAYING YES, EVERYTHING THAT I WAS ASKED, PUSHING ME TO DO THIS AND DO THAT STUFF THAT I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU ALL DO. OTHER BUILDINGS THAT'S COMMERCIAL AND LIKE I, I MADE THE PRIME EXAMPLE ON THE PROPERTY AT 3 0 3. IT'S RIGHT AT WOOD RESIDENTIAL HOUSE IS RIGHT AT THAT PROPERTY. AND THERE'S NO RESTRICTIONS ON THAT PROPERTY. DIFFERENT, THERE'S NO CAMERAS ON THAT PROPERTY. THERE'S NO RESTRICTION. I PUT CAMERAS AROUND THAT ENTIRE BUILDING DOWN THERE. UH, BUT LIKE I SAID, IF THEY WANT TO INSTALL A CAMERA THERE, I'M WILLING TO LET YOU USE MY BUILDING TO DO SO. UH, NO ONE ELSE HAS A CAMERA SYSTEM DOWN THERE. CORRECT. BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS, AGAIN, LET'S GO, LET'S GO WITH THE SCENARIO THAT YOUR BUSINESS DOES REALLY WELL AND YOU DECIDE THAT YOU WANNA SELL IT. 'CAUSE YOU WANNA RETIRE. THE CAMERAS THAT ARE ON THERE WILL GO WITH, YOU KNOW, THE NEW OWNER. THEY MAY BE TAKEN DOWN. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THIS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, DONE, THIS WOULD BE MAINTAINED BY THE CITY AND THIS WOULD, YOU KNOW, END UP GOING TOWARDS OUR CRIME PREVENTION, UM, YOU KNOW, APPROACH THAT WE'VE BEEN TAKING TOWARDS DEVELOPMENT. AND I'M, I'M, I'M, I AGREE WITH THAT, BUT I DON'T FEEL LIKE I SHOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. I'M STILL LOOKING AT THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS TO STILL DO RENOVATIONS DOWN THERE. RIGHT. AND MY MONEY IS LIMITED. I'M NOT RICH. I I'M NOT TRYING TO BE FUNNY. I'M JUST, MY MONEY IS VERY LIMITED RIGHT NOW. LOT, UH, YOU KNOW, IT IS, LIKE I SAY, I JUST SPENT $27,000 AND THEN I HAD TO PAY CASH FOR THE BUILDING. I'M NOT RICH. I, I GOTTA WATCH MY MONEY SO I CAN COMPLETE WHAT I'M DOING TO COMPLETE THIS AND THIS. A LOT OF STUFF HAS SPENT ALREADY ACTS OF ME TO COMPLETE THAT. OTHER PEOPLE, YOU HAD THREE OTHER BUSINESSES AT THAT BUILDING AND NONE OF THEM WAS ASKED TO PUT A PARKING LOCK IN, STRIKE IT, SEAL IT, NONE OF THAT STUFF. NONE OF 'EM WAS NOT ASKED TO PUT THE HANDICAPS, HAD NONE OF 'EM WAS ASKED TO PUT THE BUILDING COVER FOR THE TRASH CANS THAT COST ME GOT $2,000 TO DO THAT. SO NONE OF THAT STUFF WAS ASKED. AND WHEN I GO GET THE BUILDING, I'M GETTING ALL THIS BEING ASKED TO DO ALL THIS EXTRA STUFF AT THE COST OF, OF, OF, OF MY OWN EXPENSE. AND, YOU KNOW, FOR ME TO SAY, I GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO, UH, PUT A CAMERA ON MY BUILDING, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE ENOUGH, BECAUSE YOU'LL GET WHAT YOU WANT. YOU'LL BE ABLE TO, UH, RECORD WHATEVER COMES DOWN THAT STREET, WHETHER THE BUILDING, AND YOU CAN PUT THAT IN THE POCKET. I'M FINE WITH THAT. IF YOU WANNA PUT THAT, THAT, THAT, THAT A CAMERA WILL BE INSTALLED ON THAT BUILDING AND THAT THEY, IF I EVER SELL THE BUILDING, THAT THEY, THEY, THEY CANNOT DO ANYTHING WITH THE CAMERA. THEY CAN'T TAKE IT DOWN THAT THEY CAN'T DISASSEMBLE IT. I'M WILLING TO SIGN THAT. OKAY. UH, COUNSELOR DENTON. UM, I DON'T KNOW IF I'M ADDRESSING YOU ON MISS, UM, MR. WARD, BUT, UM, I DO AGREE WITH THE PROS. UM, I, I DO HAVE SOME RESERVATION ABOUT A RESTAURANT RIGHT THERE. MM-HMM . UM, I'VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE AND I KNOW THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AND, UM, I, I LOOKED AT, AT THE PETITIONS AND NOT VERY MANY OF THEM WERE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO BE IMPACTED BY THE RESTAURANT. THESE WERE PEOPLE THAT CAME FROM ALL OVER THE CITY. UH, EVEN PRINCE GEORGE, TIM WHITTY. MM-HMM . UM, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY, UM, I DON'T WANT THEM TO INFLUENCE ME ON THIS. RIGHT. WELL, I HAVE, UH, SOMEONE TO SPEAK FOR ME THAT LIVES OVER THERE. AND THIS ONE RIGHT HERE IS ALL IN THAT PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT THERE. IT'S THAT PART OF WHAT YOU GAVE US? NO, THIS IS A NEW ONE. OH, THAT'S A NEW ONE THEN. I DON'T HAVE THAT. YES MA'AM. I CAN GIVE IT TO YOU IF YOU LIKE. WELL, NOT UNLESS ALL COUNSELORS HAVE WOULD HAVE THAT. OKAY. BUT THAT WAS NOT IN OUR PACKET AND SO I, I DON'T, WELL, MR. WARD WAS NICE ENOUGH TO ASK ME TO, UH, CONTINUE GETTING THE PETITIONS AND I KNEW THAT I NEEDED TO GET SOME, AND [03:05:01] ALL OF THESE ARE ACTUALLY OVER THERE IN THAT AREA. I DIDN'T KNOW OTHER AREA, BUT THAT AREA. SO THIS IS FULL TWO SHEETS OF THIS IN THAT AREA. THE OTHER SHEET HAD, I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'VE DONE WITH IT. WELL, KNOWING WE'RE GOING A LITTLE LATE IN THE EVENING, I, I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT NOW. YOU MIGHT GIVE IT TO MR. WARD AND IF WE TABLE THIS THE NIGHT OR WHATEVER WE DO. UM, BUT I, I DID, I HAVE WRITTEN BY, I KNOW, LIKE I SAY, I KNOW THE AREA VERY WELL. I KNOW WHAT HAS BEEN IN THAT BUILDING FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, DIFFERENT THINGS. UM, I, I JUST HAVE SOME RESERVATIONS. I'LL JUST BE HONEST WITH YOU. YES, MA'AM. AND I'M SORRY, I KNOW YOU'RE, UM, WE'RE RUNNING A FABULOUS BUSINESS. YES. AND, BUT I JUST DON'T, I'M JUST NOT CONVINCED THAT THIS IS THE RIGHT PLACE FOR IT AND THAT'S MY ONLY PRESERVATION. OKAY. SO, UM, HAVING SAID THAT, UM, I'M THIRD. OKAY. UH, COUNCILOR PELLUM, THEN COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. I WOULD LIKE THE COUNSELORS TO CONSIDER LIVE MUSIC. COULD BE JUST A SAXOPHONE OR GOOD TALK PLAYING. RIGHT. IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT, IT'S A SAXOPHONE IS LIVE MUSIC. IT'S NOT JUST A WHOLE BAND. 'CAUSE LIKE, THE LIMIT, THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING WILL LIMIT A BAND BEING THERE. BUT I DON'T SEE ANYTHING WITH THE YOUNG LADY HAVING A SAXOPHONE OR A GUITAR PLAYER OR SOMETHING OF THAT NATURE TO COME AND ENTERTAIN YOUR GUESTS AS THEY EAT DINNER OR PIANO'S EVEN. I MEAN, RESIDENT PIANO IS, UH, LIVE MUSIC. SO I I I, I THINK THE LIVE MUSIC IS, IT IS KINDA, OH, IT, IT, IT DON'T, IT DON'T FIT. I MEAN, STAFF'S CONCERN WAS HOW DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN SOMEONE PLAYING A SAXOPHONE OR A HAR VERSUS A A ROCK BAND? UH, THEY, THEY CLOSE IT OUT A CLOCK ONE IS GONNA BE MUCH LOUDER THAN THE OTHER. YEAH. BUT IT'S NOT O'CLOCK. AND, AND OUR ORDINANCE, WE WERE STILL CONCERNED ABOUT POTENTIAL NOISE IMPACTS, BUT EVERY CLUB RAN HERE HAVE, LIKE, THE ANCHOR ROOM COULD HAVE LIED. I'M, I'M NOT, I UNDERSTAND. I'M, I'M NOT GONNA HERE TO ARGUE WITH ANYBODY. I'M JUST TRYING TO EXPLAIN. CAR BROTHERS, THE ANCHOR ROOM DID NOT GO THROUGH A REZONING REQUEST. AND PROFFERS ARE NOT A PART OF THAT. SO NO, NO. SO IF THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE RESTRICTIONS, REZONING IS ONE THING, BUT IF THEY DON'T HAVE THOSE RESTRICTIONS, THEN I FEEL LIKE WE ARE BEING DISCRIMINATORY. WE'RE NOT, THIS, THIS IS ALL A PART OF A REZONING PROCESS. RIGHT. SO HAS NOTHING, IT'S COMPLETELY NOT RELATED TO MM-HMM . ANCHOR ROOM WHATSOEVER. IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT CONCERNS DOWNTOWN. WHAT ABOUT CAR GUYS? YOU GOT, YOU GOT RESIDENT ONE AT A TIME. STOP. I HAD TO PULL CAR BROTHERS AND PARTNERS. ARE THEY, ARE B TWO THE SAME? ARE THEY THE SAME DISTRICT? I, I DON'T KNOW OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD WHAT THE ZONING IS. IT'S RIGHT ON WOODLAWN STREET GOING UP TO MCDONALD'S. ISN'T THAT A B TWO ZONE? NO, THAT WOULD BE, IT'S EITHER A B THREE OR B FOUR. OKAY. ANYWAY, I, I, I THINK WE SHOULD GIVE LIVE AT LEAST A DJ UNTIL NINE O'CLOCK BECAUSE THE ORDINANCE FOR MUSIC, LOUD MUSIC STOP STARTS AT 10. I BELIEVE ANYTHING AFTER 10 YOU CAN'T HAVE, AND I ALSO DON'T AGREE NO SPECIAL EVENTS OR CHARITABLE ACTIVITIES ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING. 'CAUSE AGAIN, SHE DOES NOT IMPACT THE ORDINANCE FOR A NOISE UNTIL 10 O'CLOCK AND SHE'S CLOSING AT NOT, AND THOSE TWO ARE OBJECTED TO THAT. THEY SHOULD, THEY SHOULD BE A PART OF THE PROFFERS THAT WE ELIMINATE MY OPINION. SO GUYS, IN ORDER FOR THE SAKE OF TIME FOR THIS, IF YOU HAVE COMMENTS, LET'S SAVE IT TILL AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING WHEN WE GET A MOTION ON THE FLOOR. BUT DOES ANYONE ELSE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? YEAH, SO, SO THE THE CHURCHES AND THINGS AROUND THEM CAN'T HAVE THESE SAME CHARITABLE EVENTS. I, I, I, I, YEAH, THE CHURCH IS OVER THE ADDRESS. SO, MR. WARD, I ASKED A QUESTION SINCE YOU HAD, WHAT IS THE CONCERN EXACTLY? BECAUSE EVEN LIKE DOWNTOWN, FOR EXAMPLE, THE BUSINESSES HAVE RESIDENCES ON TOP. SO WHAT SPECIFICALLY WHEN IT COMES TO THE MUSIC, WHETHER DISC JOCKEY OR LIVE MUSIC IS THE CONCERN, IF THESE THINGS ARE HAPPENING EARLY ON TO THE DAY, WE ARE ALREADY AGREEING TO THE 7:00 AM TO 9:00 PM SO THE, THE NOISE RESTRICTIONS, THE THINGS THAT WILL BOTHER PEOPLE TO MAKE SURE AT A DECENT HOUR THAT THIS RESTAURANT IS CLOSED AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. WHAT IS THE EXACT CONCERN FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, THAT THAT LIVE MUSIC WILL PLAY AT THIS BUSINESS? THE CHURCH GOT LIVE MUSIC TOO. MATTER OF FACT, NO NOISE. RIGHT? [03:10:01] SO THE CHURCH CAN HAVE SERVICE THAT'S, THAT ENDS AT NINE AND 10 O'CLOCK AT NIGHT TOO, IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM HER. THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE MUSIC AND, AND PLAY MUSIC AS WELL. WHAT IS THE CONCERN PARTICULARLY FOR THIS BUSINESS? AGAIN, IT WAS, IT WAS NOISE. IT'S NOISE DURING THE DAYTIME. HOW MANY TIMES YOU SUPPOSED TO TALK NOISE AT ANY TIME? WHY? WHY IS THAT A CONCERN FOR THIS BUSINESS AND NOT THE CHURCHES AND THINGS A CHURCH IS GONNA HAVE? I MEAN, I, I JUST DON'T SEE IT AS APPLES AND ORANGES. IF IT, I DON'T THINK YOU HEAR CHURCH MUSIC OUTSIDE THE BUILDING. I, I MEAN, MY THOUGHT WAS, UH, ALL THESE CITIZENS BEHIND YOU. RESPECTFULLY. THAT'S THE FOSTERS. I'VE BEEN TO CHURCH ALL MY LIFE. I SAID, POINT OF ORDER. WHAT'S YOUR POINT OF ORDER? MY POINT OF ORDER IS RESPECTFUL. AND I UNDERSTAND THERE'S DIFFERENCES OF OPINION. WE HEARD YOUR PRESENTATION. WE HEARD YOUR PRESENTATION. WE HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING. WE HAVE A PERSON THAT'S SIGNED UP TO ALSO SPEAK THAT'S BEEN WAITING HERE ALL NIGHT AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING. WE OPEN BACK UP FOR MOTIONS. AND RIGHT NOW, THIS TIME SHOULD BE ASKING QUESTIONS. AND I THINK QUESTIONS HAVE BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERS HAVE BEEN PROVIDED. LET ME MOVE FORWARD FOR THE PUBLIC HEARING DEBATE AND THEN, AND THEN DO THE WHOLE DEBATE THING AFTER THE PUBLIC HEARING. UM, SO COUNCIL IS FINE. CAN WE MOVE FORWARD THE PUBLIC HEARING, LET THE PERSON SPEAK AND PUT THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR. IS EVERYONE OKAY WITH THAT? I AGREE. FINE. ALRIGHT. I'M GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP THE PUBLIC HEARING. UH, THE ONLY ONE THAT I HAVE SIGNED UP FOR TONIGHT IS ANTHONY SYLVESTER. GOOD EVENING. UM, I LIVE AT 1 0 9 CRESCENT AVENUE. IT'S WARD THREE. I'VE LIVED THERE FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS. I'M ALSO INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THIS PIECE OF PROPERTY. UM, LEARNED OVER THE WEEKEND THAT MY WIFE ACTUALLY TOOK DAN'S LESSON LESSONS FROM MS. BRAND WHEN SHE OPERATED IT. I, I AM IN FAVOR OF THE REZONING, BUT ONLY WITH THE PROFFERS THAT HAVE BEEN ATTACHED. AND I WANNA BE CLEAR ABOUT THAT. BUT THIS IS A, THIS IS A BARGAIN AND EXCHANGE PROCESS. IT'S BECAUSE IT'S BEING REZONED THAT THESE PROFFERS ARE BEING MADE. IF IT WAS ZONED SOMEWHERE ELSE, WE WOULDN'T BE TALKING ABOUT LOUD MUSIC. WE WOULDN'T, OR, OR WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE TALKING ABOUT LIVE MUSIC OR EVENTS OUTSIDE. SO THIS IS A BARGAIN FOR EXCHANGE. THE, THE ISSUE ISN'T WHETHER OR NOT WE TRUST THIS LADY. IT'S THESE PROFFERS RUN WITH THE LAND. AND SO ANYBODY ELSE THAT COMES INTO THIS SITUATION, IF YOU CHANGE THE PROFFERS, YOU DON'T HAVE THAT PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU. I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE COMMUNITY. I, I DO QUESTION WITH REGARDS TO THE PETITIONS. MS. DENTON, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE SIGNED THAT PETITION BECAUSE THEY KNEW IT CAME OUT OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION WITH THOSE PROFFERS ATTACHED. SO IF YOU, IF, AND AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT IT SUBMITTED TO YOU WITH THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S APPROVAL OF THOSE PROFFERS, AND IT, IT JUST STRIKES ME AS MAYBE A BAIT AND SWITCH AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE GONNA CHANGE THOSE PROFFERS UP WHEN THE PLANNING COMMISSION, IF IT DIDN'T HAVE THAT PROFFER ON THERE, IT MIGHT HAVE VOTED THE OTHER WAY. NOW THAT'S YOUR DISCRETION TO AGAIN, TAKE WHAT THE PLANNING COMMISSION RECOMMENDS TO YOU AND CHANGE IT. I, I WOULD, I WOULD URGE YOU NOT TO DO THAT. I AM, AGAIN, I'M IN SUPPORT OF THIS. I LIKE THE IDEA OF WALKING TWO BLOCKS AND BEING ABLE TO PURCHASE FOOD. I THINK THERE ARE CONSTRAINTS ON THE PHYSICAL SIZE OF THE BUILDING THAT WILL PREVENT IT FROM BEING UNRULY, BEING AN, AN UNUSUAL SITUATION IN TERMS OF CROWD SIZE AND WHATNOT. BUT AGAIN, I CAN'T SAY IT STRONGLY ENOUGH. I SUPPORT IT BASED ON THE PROFFERS. UM, IT'S GONE THROUGH A PROCESS OF PUBLIC HEARINGS. UM, THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN, HAVE BEEN WELDED THROUGH, I'M SORRY, MELDED THROUGH IN THAT PROCESS. I RESPECT, UM, THE PLANNING COMMISSION'S, UM, I'M SORRY, THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT'S, UM, UNDERSTANDING OF THOSE. AND WITH REGARDS TO THIS BEING WHERE IT IS, AGAIN, IT'S NOT IN THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT. PEOPLE IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD BOUGHT THEIR HOUSE, UM, UNDERSTANDING A CERTAIN QUIET ENJOYMENT. UM, AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA RESTRICT HER ABILITY TO MAKE MONEY. THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE. UM, AND, AND FRANKLY, IF, IF WE GOT CONCERNS ABOUT PUTTING ANOTHER ATTACHMENT OR CAMERA UP THERE, USE THE CITY'S, YOU KNOW, THE COMMONWEALTH ATTORNEY'S GOT FORFEITURE MONEY. THE POLICE DEPARTMENT'S GOT FORFEIT YOUR MONEY, USE THE FORFEITURE MONEY AND ATTACH IT TO THE BUILDING. SHE'S GIVEN YOU PERMISSION TO PUT IT THERE. I AGREE WITH HER. SHE'S DONE A LOT OF THINGS. SHE INVESTED A LOT OF MONEY BEFORE SHE GOT TO THIS PROCESS. I THINK THAT WAS DONE IN GOOD FAITH. I WELCOME HER AS A NEIGHBORHOOD. I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO BUYING FOOD FOR. BUT AGAIN, I, I'M, I'M OKAY WITH IT BECAUSE OF THE PROFFERS THAT ARE ATTACHED. AND I DON'T THINK THEY'RE DISCRIMINATORY. I THINK THEY'RE BASED ON WHERE THIS PROPERTY IS SITUATED AND THE HISTORICAL USE OF THAT, THAT NEIGHBORHOOD AS A RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITY. THANK YOU. OKAY. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS? YES, MA'AM. UM, I'M SUSAN DEN. I LIVE AT 2 7 0 3 WEST CITY POINT CAT CORNER TO THE BUILDING. UM, I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE RESTAURANT. I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE ZONING. 'CAUSE AS WE SAID, THIS IS IN THE MIDDLE, THE HEART OF A RESIDENTIAL PLACE. UM, YOU'RE REZONING IT FOR B TWO. [03:15:01] HE DID ALL THE USES. GREAT. WHAT IS THE DEFINITION OF B TWO THOUGH? B TWO IS LIMITED COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENT ALONG SOME OF THE MAJOR TRAVEL STREETS WITHIN THE CITY. IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE EXISTING COMMERCIAL ESTABLISHMENTS PRESENTLY LOCATED THERE TO ENHANCE THESE AREAS TO ATTRACT SIMILAR TYPE OF ESTABLISHMENTS BECAUSE OF THE SHALLOWNESS OR NARROWNESS OF LOTS IN THESE AREAS, ONLY CERTAIN COMMERCIAL USE WILL BE USED, WHICH WILL NOT CAUSE AN INCREASE IN TRAFFIC VOLUME. I FEEL LIKE WE'RE SETTING A PRECEDENCE WHEN WE START PUTTING A COMMERCIAL SPOT IN A FULLY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD. LIKE I SAID, RESTAURANT HAVE A PROBLEM. UM, I FEEL LIKE THE APPEARANCE HAS BEEN GIVEN THAT BECAUSE SHE HAS MADE, AS SHE SAID, $27,000 IN IMPROVEMENTS. I'VE SEEN IN SOME OF COURSE ABSOLUTELY PLANNING COMMISSION, UM, THAT SOMETHING HAS BEEN SAID THAT HAS GUARANTEED HER OR TOLD HER THAT SHE WAS GOING TO, EVERYTHING WAS GONNA GO THROUGH. RIGHT. BECAUSE WHY WOULD YOU INVEST THAT MONEY BEFORE YOU KNOW THAT YOU CAN OPEN YOUR DOORS, RIGHT? MM-HMM . UM, WHETHER IT HAPPENED, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I JUST FEEL WE'RE SETTING A PRECEDENT BECAUSE YES, CITY POINT ROAD IS TRAVELED, IT'S TRAVELED BY THE RESIDENTS IN THAT AREA. WHEN I LIVED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF HOPEWELL, I DID NOT TOUCH CITY POINT ROAD BECAUSE I, I HAD NO NEED TO. IT'S NOT WINSTON CHURCHILL, IT'S NOT OAK LAWN. IT'S NOT 15TH, IT'S NOT SIXTH AVENUE WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET OUT OF THE CITY OR UM, UH, 1 56 WHERE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET OUT THE CITY THAT NO MATTER WHERE YOU LIVE, TO GET OUT OF IT IN THAT DIRECTION, YOU HAVE TO TRAVEL IT. SO I FEEL THAT THE ZONING ITSELF IS THE WRONG ZONING FOR THAT AREA. THAT PROPERTY IS MY THING. AND I WOULD LOVE FOR, I, I NEED TO COMMEND THE CITY COUNCIL ON, AND PEOPLE ARE SENDING IN LETTERS OR EMAILS, AT LEAST YOU GUYS READ THEM. WHEN YOU GUYS HELD YOUR PLANNING COMMISSION, THE ONLY THING WAS ADDRESSED WAS WE HAD TWO EMAILS IN ONE LETTER. DIDN'T SAY WHETHER THEY WERE FOR OR AGAINST. DIDN'T SAY WHAT WAS IN 'EM OR NOTHING. SO I, I WOULD HOPE THE PLANNING COMMISSION WOULD TAKE KIND OF SOME TIPS ON THAT PART BECAUSE I THINK IT SHOULD BE READ OUT BECAUSE IT LETS EVERYBODY KNOW WHAT WAS SAID. THAT'S ALL. I'M, THANK YOU. THANK YOU. OKAY. IS THERE ANYONE ELSE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? UM, CHARLES BENNETT, DIRECTOR OF VIETNAM DEVELOPMENT TOURISM. I SUPPORT THIS, UM, WHEN SOMEONE'S COMING INTO THE CITY AND PUTTING THEIR, THEIR MONEY, UM, AND INVESTING IN A CHANCE, UM, TO PROVIDE ECONOMIC ACTIVITY IN THE CITY. I SUPPORT IT, I SUPPORT THE PROCESS AND I SUPPORT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATIONS. THANK YOU. OKAY. ANYONE ELSE IN THE AUDIENCE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK ON THIS TOPIC? NO. OKAY. PUBLIC HEARING IS NOW CLOSED. ALRIGHT. IS THERE A MOTION ON THE FLOOR TO APPROVE THE REZONING REQUEST WITH THE PROFFERS OFFERED, UH, BY THE APPLICANT AS PRESENTED TONIGHT? SO MOVED. SECOND. ALL RIGHT. MOTIONS BEEN MADE BY COUNCILLOR JOYNER AND SECONDED BY COUNCILLOR HARRIS. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION SEEING NO LIGHTS ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON? YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON? NO. COUNCILOR PAO? YEAH. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY AS PRESENT HOLLOWAY? YES. WITH THE NOTE THAT I NOT AGREE WITH THOSE TWO PROPERTIES. COUNCILOR JOYNER? YES. MOTION PASSES. SIX TO ONE. [Additional Item] ALRIGHT, MOVING ON TO UNFINISHED. UH, UH, UH, VICE MAYOR GORE, I LIKE YOU. I MAKE A MOTION. SO I WAS TRYING TO POLL WHILE WE'RE DOING THIS OTHER STUFF TO MAKE A MOTION THAT AFTER, UM, UNFINISHED BUSINESS, SINCE COUNCIL DENTON HAS BEEN WAITING PATIENTLY FOR TWO MEETINGS, UH, WE MOVE ON TO ADJOURN MEETING AFTER COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS AND, AND REMOVE EVERYTHING ELSE PENDING TO THIS FINANCE COMMITTEE ON THE 17TH TO CLOSE OFF THE YEAR, NOT THE, UH, WHAT HAPPENED ELSE TO DO UNFINISHED BUSINESS. SO SHE'S BEEN WAITING UHHUH, DO THE PRESENTATIONS FOR COUNCIL AND MOVE THE OTHER ITEMS TO THE 17TH MEETING TO CLOSE OUT THE YEAR. MM-HMM . MEETING ON 17TH. OKAY. SO MOVED. OH, MAY 2ND. OKAY. THANK YOU YOUR HONOR. MOTION'S BEEN MADE BY VICE MAYOR GORE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. IS THERE ANY DIS UH, YEAH. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? THINK FOR A SECOND. NEED IT ONE MORE TIME. SORRY. ? YES. TO DO THE UNFINISHED BIZ. 'CAUSE YOU'VE BEEN WAIVING. DO THAT TONIGHT. DO OUR COUNCIL PRESENTATIONS TONIGHT. MOVE THE [03:20:01] OTHER ITEMS TO THE 17TH MEETING TO CLOSE OUT THE YEAR. THE OTHER ARE, YES, MA'AM. OKAY. OKAY. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? SEEING NO LIGHTS ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILLOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON. NO. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILLOR PELLO. YES. COUNCILLOR HOLLOWAY? ABSOLUTELY. COUNCILOR JOYNER? NO. MOTION PASSES. FIVE TO TWO. OKAY. [UNFINISHED BUSINESS] YOU BE ONE, DR. MAN. UM, TONIGHT'S, UM, COUNSEL, YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU, UH, UM, A POLICY, UH, THAT WAS REQUESTED BY THE CITY ATTORNEY TO, TO DRAFT. SHE'S HERE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MAY HAVE. UM, THE POLICY WAS DRAFTED, UM, BY PULLING THE VIRGINIA CODE, UM, TOGETHER INTO ONE CITY POLICY. WE DO. THE CITY CURRENTLY HAS THE CONFLICT, THE INTEREST POLICY IN THE, UM, UH, THE CITY'S HANDBOOK. AND THIS POLICY WOULD BE TO EXPAND THE EXISTING CONFLICT OF INTEREST POLICY. AS YOU TAKE A LOOK AT THE STATEMENTS AND THE READ THE POLICY THROUGHOUT, UM, THE ATTORNEY HAS PAIN STATE LEAD TAKEN EACH ONE OF THESE POLICIES FROM THE VIRGINIA CODE. IN THE EVENT THAT THE CITY DOES NOT ADOPT, UM, A POLICY, THEY WILL HAVE TO RELY ON THE VIRGINIA CODE. SO ALL THIS DOES IS PUT ALL THE CODES INTO ONE LOCATION, INTO ONE POLICY, UM, WHERE THE CITY IS ADOPTING THE POLICY ON A LOCAL LEVEL. IF THE, IF THE CITY CHOOSES NOT TO ADOPT THE POLICY, UH, THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE POLICY THAT IS WRITTEN IN HERE DOESN'T EXIST. IT STILL EXISTS. IT'S HERE IN THE VIRGINIA CODE. AND SHE HAS TAKEN THE TIME TO IDENTIFY IN THE VIRGINIA CODE AS TO WHERE SHE HAD GOTTEN THE LANGUAGE FROM. BUT, UM, THE CONFLICT, THE INTEREST POLICY IS BEFORE YOU, I PASS THE FLOOR BACK TO THE MAYOR TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS OF THE CITY ATTORNEY AND OPEN THE FLOOR FOR DISCUSSION. OKAY. UH, VICE MAYOR CORE HOLLOWAY, AND THEN MYSELF MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE AND TO ADOPT AND IMPLEMENT THE HR CONFLICT OF THE REVISED C OF HOPEWELL HR CONFLICT OF INTEREST POLICY. I GOT A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. GOTTA BE SECOND, FIRST. OH, ALL RIGHT. SHOULD I MOVE THIS ALONG? OKAY. WE'RE JUST ALL, SO THE SECOND THANK YOU. THE MOTION'S BEEN MADE BY VICE MAYOR GORE AND SECONDED BY COUNCILOR PELLUM. MAKE A FRIENDLY AMENDMENT. YES, GO AHEAD. UH, THERE'S A PORTION OF THAT 15.2, MADAM ATTORNEY OF 15, 12.2 THAT'S MISSING OUT OF THERE. UH, I WOULD LIKE ADDED INTO THIS POLICY. YOU SAID 15 WHAT? THE 15. THE, THE LISTED 15.2 DASH 15. 12.2 MM-HMM . UH, THE ADDITIONAL PORTION THAT'S NOT LISTED ON HERE ALSO STATES THAT, UM, UH, PREVENTS EMPLOYEES INCLUDING LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, UH, EMERGENCY FIREFIGHTERS, EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES, PERSONNELS AND DEPUTIES, THEIR APPOINTEES AND EMPLOYEES, UH, ALSO OF LOCAL CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS FROM PARTICIPATING IN ACTIVITIES WHILE THEY'RE OFF DUTY ON THE PREMISES OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT. WHERE, UM, IT'S NOT LISTED ON HERE. NO, BUT I I PULLED UP THE CODE. WHERE, WHICH SECTION IS THAT? 15.2 DASH OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT. 18. SO SECTION B, NOT WITHSTANDING ANY CONTRARY PROVISION OF LAW, MADAM ATTORNEY NEED ME TO GIVE YOU MY LAPTOP TO LOOK AT THIS. SO YOU CAN HAVE REFERENCE TO WHAT HE'S ASKING ABOUT. IT'S THIS, HE WANTS TO ADD THIS PARAGRAPH TO YOUR EXISTING 15 BECAUSE THE, THE EMPLOYEE AS IS UNDERSTOOD, CANNOT, UH, PARTICIPATE IN, UM, POLITICAL ACTIVITIES ON THE PLACE OF THEIR EMPLOYMENT. SO THEY WOULDN'T EVEN BE, SO FOR EXAMPLE, CITY HALL IS, IT COULD BE A PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT IF IT'S AN EMPLOYEE. [03:25:01] MM-HMM . IT IS 1812, I BELIEVE. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY, SHE TRYING TO LOOK AT THE, THAT YOU LETTERS THAT YOU WANT ADDED HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH I OKAY. THAT'S WHY IT'S NOT INCLUDED. BASICALLY NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. JUST TELL COUNCIL THEY NO, NO, NO, NOT COUNCIL. IT'S EMPLOYEE. SO THE EMPLOYEE CANNOT HANDLE POLITICAL ACTIVITIES. THE PREMISES OF THE SO YOU'RE SAYING IT'S STATE LAW? IT'S A STATE LAW. IT'S A STATE LAW SAYING REALLY WITH THE CONFLICT OF, BUT IT'S CERTAIN STATE LAW THAT YOU CAN'T DO IT ANYWAY. OH, YOU CAN'T DO IT ANYWAY. SO THE CLAR, SO THE CLARIFICATION MADAM ATTORNEY, IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO ADD IT TO THE POLICY BECAUSE YOU CANNOT DO IT ANYWAY. CORRECT'S SOMETHING THAT COUNSEL CANNOT DO PROHIBITED BY STATUTE ANYWAY. OKAY. THANK YOU. CAN YOU FINISH MY VOICE? NO, HE CAN HAVE THE FLOOR. I WOULD JUST TRY TO OH, OKAY. I'M SORRY. OKAY. ALRIGHT. UM, MS. BEVERLY, UM, DID YOU SPEAK WITH THE COMMONWEALTH'S ATTORNEY, UM, ABOUT THIS BY ANY CHANCE? NO. OKAY. UM, THE REASON I'M ASKING IS 'CAUSE I, YOU SPOKE WITH HIM AND HE SAID HE, THERE WERE SOME CONCERNS THAT HE HAD WITH THE POLICY ON HOW HE INTERPRETS, UM, A COUPLE SECTIONS IN HERE AND I THINK BEFORE PASSING IT, I THINK IT MIGHT BE A GOOD IDEA TO JUST SIT DOWN AND HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH HIM. UM, SO THAT WAY WE CAN TRY TO PREVENT ANY SORT OF LEGAL TROUBLES THAT, YOU KNOW, MAY END UP ARISING FROM THIS. UM, THAT'S JUST MY RECOMMENDATION. SPECIFY WHICH PROVISIONS YOU HAD TROUBLE WITH. YEAH, IT GOES, IF YOU GO DOWN, THERE'S SECTIONS DEALING WITH THE BUDGET AND DEALING WITH PERSONNEL ISSUES, UH, DEALING WITH SALARIES, HEALTHCARE, UM, LEMME SEE. PHONE NUMBER. LET ME PULL IT UP. OR BRITTANY, CAN YOU JUST ROLL TO THE NEXT SHEET? IT'S ON THE SECOND ONE. IT IS. THESE COME DIRECTLY FROM THE STATE. YEAH, THEY DO. RIGHT. BUT I'M JUST SAYING HE HAS SOME CONCERNS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW, HOW HE'S INTERPRETING THEM BECAUSE I MEAN, HE'S THE ONE THAT ENDS UP PROSECUTING THIS IF THEY'RE CRIMINAL VIOLATIONS, THESE ARE NOT CRIMINAL. RIGHT. AND THE INTERPRETATION IS DIFFERENT FROM THIS AND THE STATUTE. I, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH CONTACTING HIM IF I KNOW WHAT HIS, OKAY. NO, BUT IT'S NUMBER 14. ALRIGHT, WHERE'S THE BUDGET? OKAY. I THINK, WHAT WAS IT, 16 SHORT DOWN BRITTANY. YEAH. 16 AND A TOT THE CITY COUNCIL SHALL NOT VOTE ON SEIZE BUDGET, PAY RAISES AND HEALTH INSURANCE OR ANY DEPARTMENT POLICIES THAT WOULD IMPACT OFFICIALS ECONOMIC INTEREST. ISN'T THAT WHAT COUNCIL POWELL WAS INDICTED FOR? ABSOLUTELY. I DON'T KNOW. I THAT SHE WAS INDICTED FOR DOING THAT. THAT'S ALL. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE SURE IT'S PROHIBITED. I'M JUST SAYING THIS IS, THAT'S ALL BEFORE MY TIME. I'M JUST TELLING YOU. JUST RELAYING, YOU KNOW, WHERE HE SEES, YOU KNOW, SOME, YOU KNOW, POTENTIAL, YOU KNOW, GRAY AREAS AND I THINK A CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, CAN BE HAD, YOU KNOW, BEFORE PASSING FIND INFORMATION. UH, UH, THE, YOU YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, THE FACT OF THE, THE THINGS THAT COULD BE IN THE GRAY AREA AS FAR AS THE INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW, BUT THERE'S NO NEED FOR US TO DELAY BECAUSE WE ARE ACTUALLY PUTTING LAW CODE IN. IT'S THIS ACTUAL LAW CODE THAT YOU'RE PUTTING UP. THERE'RE NOT INTERPRETING LAW HERE. CORRECT. THAT'S ALRIGHT. THANK YOU. THAT'S FINE. LIKE, LIKE I SAID, PUT IT ON THE RECORD. YEAH. I, AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I'M STATING IT FOR THE RECORD SO THAT WAY [03:30:01] I'M, YOU KNOW, FULLY COVERED. UM, AND THEN I THINK IT WAS NUMBER 17 AS WELL FOR WHEN YOU, THERE'S ISSUES AND INVESTIGATIONS THAT END UP GOING ON. YEAH. SO THAT'S THE MORE REASON THOSE ITEMS ARE, THE MORE REASON THE PERSON SHOULDN'T BE, UH, HAVE A CONFLICT BEING AN EMPLOYEE AND A CITY COUNCIL PERSON. THOSE TWO THINGS YOU BROUGHT OUT, THE MORE REASON YOU SHOULDN'T SERVE IN THAT CAPACITY ONE OR THE OTHER AS, AS AN INDIVIDUAL EMPLOYEE, YOU HAVE TO JUST MAKE A DECISION. YEAH. MAKE YOU WANNA BE A COUNSELOR OR YOU WANNA BE AN EMPLOYEE. AND THAT, THAT THAT'S ENCUMBERED ON THE INDIVIDUAL, THOSE TWO ITEMS HE CONCERNED ABOUT. JUST REINFORCE THE FACT IT SHOULDN'T, SHOULDN'T BE THERE. OKAY. UH, VICE MAYOR GORE AND THEN COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. UH, CALL FOR THE VOTE. COUNCIL HALL, UNLESS YOU HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO ADD. YEAH, I, I'D LIKE TO MAKE CLEAR TOO THAT THESE POLICIES ARE PUT IN PLACE, BUT, UH, WITH THE SITUATION THAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE WITH THE ELECTED PERSONS COMING UP, THEY STILL CAN'T EVEN BE A CITY COUNCIL PERSON ACCORDING TO OUR STATE LAWS AND ACCORDING TO, UH, OUR ORDINANCE, A LOT OF THESE, A LOT, MOST OF THIS IS JUST READDRESSING SOME CERTAIN THINGS. AND AGAIN, REITERATE, UH, TO ANYONE OUT IN THE AUDIENCE OR ANYBODY LISTENING, UH, VIA, UH, MEDIA, THAT IS THE LAW THAT I READ EARLIER, PROHIBITS SPECIFICALLY, UM, OUR SAFETY OFFICERS, MEDICAL PERSONNELS EMPLOYEES AS A WHOLE FROM BEING ABLE TO, UM, DOESN'T PROHIBIT THEM FROM RUNNING AND BEING ELECTED, BUT BEFORE THEY COULD TAKE THEIR SEAT, THEY WOULD HAVE TO RESIGN, BE FIRED, OR RETIRE. IS THAT MY UNDERSTANDING OF OUR ORDINANCE? MADAM ATTORNEY? YES, SIR. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. I HAVE NO FURTHER, I AGREE TO THE CALL FOR THE VOTE. ALRIGHT. UH, I APOLOGIZE THAT COUNCIL JOYNER HAD HER LIGHT ON. THAT'S OKAY. UH, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT WE, THE AG HAS ALREADY WRITTEN AN OPINION THAT DIFFERS FROM, UM, THE, UM, INTERPRETATION OF, UM, OF OUR CITY ATTORNEY. SO WE HAVE THAT, UM, OUT THERE. IN ADDITION, THERE HAVE BEEN RECENT INQUIRIES TO THE AGS OFFICE THAT SUGGESTS THAT, UM, THIS PARTICULAR, UM, UM, ORDINANCE IS, UM, WILL NOT, WILL NOT STAND UP, UM, IN COURT. UM, YOU ALSO HAVE THE COMMENT THAT OUR, UM, COMMONWEALTH ATTORNEY MADE. I I THINK IT WOULD BE, I THINK IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR US TO, UM, EXPLORE THESE ISSUES BEFORE WE, UM, BEFORE WE VOTE TO ADOPT IT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. IS YOUR CALL VOTE, UH, CAN I, UH, SEND THAT CALL TO VOTE RECORD TO MAKE, UH, TO ASK THE, UH, CITY ATTORNEY ON CLARIFICATION OF THAT, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL, UH, VICE MAYOR GORE, SO WE CAN GET, I'LL SAY IT'S YOUR, IT'S YOUR CALL FOR THE VOTE. I'LL I COURSE, UH, MADAM CITY ATTORNEY, CAN YOU GIVE US THE CLARIFICATION THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN US ENC CLOSED SESSION CONCERNING THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S, UM, OPINION, UM, AND WHY, WHY THE, UH, HIS OPINION DID OR DID NOT ATTEST TO THE SPECI THESE SPECIFIC LAWS. CAN YOU GIVE US THE CLARIFICATION ON HIS, HIS HIS OPINION SUMMARIZED? SURE. I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH THE ATTORNEY ATTORNEY OPINION IN HERITAGE. I ONLY DISAGREE WITH THAT PORTION OF IT THAT DEALT WITH THE PARTICULAR ORDINANCE THAT WAS, UH, CITY ORDINANCE THAT WAS UNDER CONSIDERATION OF THAT PORTION OF THE ORDINANCE THAT REQUIRED, UM, A CITY EMPLOYEE WHO ACTUALLY WON AT THE ELECTION TO GET TO EITHER DECIDE TO REMAIN A EMPLOYEE AND NOT SERVE ELECTION OR TO SELECT SERVING IN THE ELECTION POSITION. AND UNDER ORDINANCE, THE ORDINANCE WAS NEVER, UM, REPEALED. OKAY. SO THAT ORDINANCE IS STILL ON THE BOOK AS A REASON. UH, MY REASONING, UH, FOR DISAGREEING WITH THAT PORTION OF THE ORDINANCE IS BECAUSE THERE THERE TWO PROVISIONS IN THE CITY CHAIR WHICH PROVIDES THAT THE FIRE CHIEF AND THE POLICE CHIEF, UM, HAVE THE ABILITY TO [03:35:01] CONTROL THEIR OWN AND MANAGE THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE CITY MANAGER. AND THOSE PROVISIONS OF THE CHARTER WERE NOT ADDRESSED AT ALL IN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S, UM, OPINION. WHEN I CONSIDERED THEM, UH, I CONSIDERED THE PLAIN LANGUAGE OF THE ORDINANCE OF THE, THE CHARTER PROVISIONS AND GAVE THEM THEIR PLAIN ORDINARY, GAVE THE WORDS IN THE CHARTER PROVISION, THEY PLAIN ORDINARY MEANING. AND WHEN I DID THAT, I HAVE TO CONCLUDE THAT, UM, UH, UH, THE FIRE CHIEF AND THE POLICE CHIEF COULD HAVE, COULD CONTROL THEIR OWN EMPLOYEES. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY COULD DO WAS TO SAY WHETHER OR NOT AN EMPLOYEE, UM, COULD SERVE ON, ON COUNCIL. AND BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF POLICE WORK AND OF FIREWORK AND THE PE SCHEDULES THAT THEY SOMETIMES HAVE, IT IS, UM, UH, SOMETHING THAT THE POLICE CHIEF AND THE FIRE CHIEF MIGHT CONSIDER, UH, WELL WITHIN THEIR PURVIEW AND TO BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN LEVELS OF, UH, OF COVERAGE AND PROTECTION. UM, AND I THINK THE CHARTER GIVES THEM THAT PERMISSION. SO, SO IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINION WAS ON THE ACTUAL ORDINANCE, WHICH HASN'T BEEN REPEALED AND NOT THE DECISIONS THAT WE HA THAT WE STILL MUST FOLLOW OUR ORDINANCE THAT'S CURRENTLY IN PLACE, CORRECT? WELL, THE ORDINANCE IS ON THE BOOKS CORRECT. AND 'CAUSE THE ORDINANCE IS ON THE BOOKS, IT'S THE LAW AND THE LAW SHOULD BE FOLLOWED. ALL RIGHT. I'D LIKE TO CALL FOR THE VOTE. OKAY. IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO THE CALL? TO THE VIV SEEING NO LIGHTS ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PARTON. NO. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILLOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILLOR POWELL. I'M GOING TO ACCEPT. OH YES. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY. YES. YOU CAN BE COUNCILOR JOYNER. NO, I DON'T KNOW. MOTION PASSES. FIVE TO TWO FIVE. ALRIGHT. VOTE YES. I KNOW THE TIME THAT Y'ALL ALL HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR. DO WANT? YEAH. I SAY IS THERE A MOTION [Additional Item] TO MAKE DO THE PRESENTATION ON THE 17TH? YEAH. RESPECTFULLY. MY FATHER HAS SURGERY TOMORROW. I REALLY WANNA GO SEE HIM. OKAY. MOTION'S BEEN, UH, MADE BY COUNCILOR HARRIS. I'LL SECOND IT. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION SEEING NO LIGHTS? ROLL CALL PLEASE. COUNCILOR HARRIS? YES, WE'RE DOING, UM, PRESENTATIONS NEXT WEEK. PRESENTATIONS. OH YEAH. OKAY. SO WE NOT CLOSING ON COMMENTS FOR THE LAST WEEK? NO. OH, SO THEY'RE COMING BACK NEXT WEEK? MM-HMM . COME BACK ANYWAYS. COUNCILOR HARRIS? YES. MAYOR PART. YES. VICE MAYOR GORE? YES. COUNCILOR DENTON? YES. COUNCILOR ELLO? YES. COUNCILOR HOLLOWAY? YES. COUNCILOR JOINER? YES. MEETING HAS BEEN ADJOURNED. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.